Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 709
SOHC,
I'm sorry for your struggle, but happy for you and your love ones that you do. You have my admiration and respect!


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:05 am
Posts: 174
kidkimbo wrote:
At the core, people with OCPD are very emotionally sensitive people. Emotionally sensitive people are, by nature, very generous. They want to help others, be nice to others, fix problems for others. This makes them feel good. Emotionally sensitive people who lack true self-esteem and have fear of rejection, though, will unfortunately spend so much energy trying to gain a sense of self-worth and acceptance through being "nice."
Agree, agree and agree!

kidkimbo wrote:
We're all messed up. OCPDers and their partners. Stop thinking that your shit don't stink and go and fight for your relationship, not just for yourself.

I do not think we or they are messed up. We are just different, and it's foolish to try to change something that isn't broken (and so, cannot be fixed). Everyone on this forum has internet access and can very easily discover there is no (known) cure for this disorder. If they choose to stay, that is their prerogative.

I very much live by this saying ;)
Okay, the actual saying: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

I do, however, have tons of empathy for children with OCPD parents, and for adults who have not yet been able to recognize the disorder in their partner, or are unable to leave because they are financially dependent on him/her (and physically/mentally incapable of becoming self-reliant).


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 988
KK,

Your basical premise is very interesting: all these problems in relationships with ocpd'ers are due to the fact that you are highly senistive people seeking out losers they can help.

This is one of those excellent ocpd-reasonings: you can wipe away the entire volume of the contributions of the non's here. Look, this site is full of painful evidence that ocpd is not exactly the blessing you take it to be. Instead of taking in the evidence, you find a brilliant argument of how all this pain can be explained and keep the image of ocpd as a blessing intact.

Except: if you were REALLY smart, you would see that a lot of the non's here are not people that need or needed the help of an ocpd'er to keep going. You can maybe see the positive change that comes over some people when they have finally stopped the relationship, the wisdom and courage of others who keep going in their relationship, the hope by newcomers to find a solution to the inexplicable problems ocpd poses.


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:10 am
Posts: 696
Location: U.S.
I am still trying to understand how there are so many folks generationally that are OCPD....the best life for an OCPD is as a Lone Wolf, inmho, but then this would-be disease would die out....why does it continue...?

_________________
A+ (98) - Cammer Test

Conscientiousness is the defining feature of OCPD from which many of the other symptoms follow. http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/3/3/2158244013500675


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:36 am 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
SOHC wrote:
I am still trying to understand how there are so many folks generationally that are OCPD....the best life for an OCPD is as a Lone Wolf, inmho, but then this would-be disease would die out....why does it continue...?


I assume that it's because (1) getting married and having kids is a social norm (less so nowadays, but still to a great extent) and (2) most people with OCPD think there's nothing wrong with them, so they see no reason why they shouldn't follow that social norm.


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:53 am
Posts: 238
Moderator, Can we ban the OCPD'rs from our side? I find this counter productive and I'm ready to completely lose it on the KK threads. I might get myself banned and I don't want to do that because this forum is a good support for me.

I'm feeling quite confrontational and sensitive. Perhaps because I'm letting go of my 7 year marriage in aprox 3 weeks from today. All because of his OCPD, verbal and emotional abuse. I feel HORRIBLE and sickened by it because I feel hopeless and hurt. It's time to stop the madness on this forum


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 761
No time for a complete reply here, but something certainly does stink.

Eddited to Add:
Quote:
tasha@ I do not think we or they are messed up. We are just different
Always a matter of perspective. From a social viewpoint OCPD is a disorder. It is messed up. It is a failure in some part of the neuro-emotional system. The results are a blend of practices and perspectives that are applied to resolve the pain the disorder causes the sufferer. Ridgity, control, emotional suppression, rage,warped logic...add on. It can be called a 'gift' in that it produces unexpected outcomes. So does blindness, palsy, down syndroom, and all other maladies common to humanity. They all cause pain to the sufferer, and to the family. OCPD is peculiar in that aside from the great gap in relating emotionally to intimates, it often produces extremely rigorous and productive people. The challenge on this board is largely to help everyone involved lessen the pain that IT CAUSES. We can talk endlessly about the 'good' aspects of OCPD. (They do exist IM0). It may help reduce the pain of the PDr's who need to hear that they are valuable, decent, and worthy people. They are. The source of the pain IS OCPD. Sure, there are other pains in life and in relationships. Not really the focus here.

After reading this growing post for a few days I find myself interpreting Kid's original post to read something like: I'm tired of being told that I'm the source of the problem. It's gotta be you too. In typical OCPD fasion it came across hard, and full of potential manipulation. More effective as a demonstration of OCPD in action than a balanced relfection of it. No worse an expression of Kid's pain than the flow of it expressed by nons's here. Another opporunity for us all to learn how to receive it. This forum is a great place to calmly and slowly tease these logics out and find the people behind it. Something that is nearly impossible to do at home whilst the frying pans are flying.

As to the details in the logic BG, Fava, RC, SOHO, and others have already worked that over pretty well.


Last edited by gitterdone88 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 150
SOHC wrote:
I am still trying to understand how there are so many folks generationally that are OCPD....the best life for an OCPD is as a Lone Wolf, inmho, but then this would-be disease would die out....why does it continue...?


Many people with OCPD don't want to be "lone wolves". They want to be loved, just like many people without OCPD. Sometimes desperately so. Also, marrying and having children seems like what you're "supposed to" do. I don't think many people are able to recognize and admit they have flaws that will make marriage and parenthood difficult.

I do not want all people with OCPD banned from posting on the main board or a separate board created just for the nons if that's where most end up posting. There are several people struggling with OCPD who post very insightful comments that help me understand and sometimes counteract my DH's behavior. Even the thought processes of those who are less aware and helpful are interesting to me. Because they aren't being directed at me by someone I love, they don't cause me pain. I can see the distortions and be amazed, enlightened, horrified, and amused at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
MarriedtoOne wrote:
Moderator, Can we ban the OCPD'rs from our side?


There are a lot of aware OCPDers who are very valuable to the discussion. I think that the problem here is that Kid is extremely motivated to see OCPD as a good thing. And if people have a problem with a good thing, those people are bad, right? So he's motivated to see the Nons as bad, or at least as the cause of the problem.

To go to a different disorder, a lot of hoarders see their hoarding as a good thing, because they give their kids all this stuff! They want to give them everything! The fact that all that stuff is chewed by mice and the heat and plumbing doesn't work because no one can get past the stuff to fix it and that their kids can't use it or play with it because there's no space in the house to do so, doesn't register with them.

The idea that actions that (1) have good motivations but (2) cause harm are (3) harmful and should be changed, doesn't resonate with those hoarders. And the idea that their actions might _not_ be utterly good-motivated, that they might be buying and keeping this stuff to relieve their own anxiety and make themselves feel better rather than to help others, is utterly rejected. They _need_ for their actions to be entirely motivated by good, so they close their eyes to any evidence that they're not, and therefore they close off any hope of change.

As I see it, Kid needs for OCPD to be good, to be entirely good-motivated, to be free of any selfishness, any desire to ease anxiety, anything that helps the OCPDer at the expense of others. And to make that work, he needs the Nons to be The Problem.

And as long as he needs that belief, he's going to hold that belief. People believe what they badly need to believe, no matter the evidence against it. My father, an engineer, needed to believe late in his life that he was going to win a lottery with odds of many millions to one, because if he didn't win it, he would have to move out of his house. So he believed it. He knew math, he knew statistics, and he blocked off all of that knowledge because of what he needed to believe.

So when I'm up to it, I may debate in those threads, more for people who may be reading than in any hope that Kid will "hear" me. And when I'm not, I don't read those threads.

So all I can recommend is, don't read those threads.


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:10 am
Posts: 696
Location: U.S.
I think this particular point in (any) relationship is where OCPD folks and Non's differ. I have an ALMOST overwhelming need to explain - in intrique detail why I believe a certain way, but I won't as this thread has become a 'trigger' and if helping people with this almost disease learn to control it, maybe this stream of information could be a STICKY, temporarily just to see if other Non's and OCPD's see the unique point,and when to back away....and, I am walking backwards..........right now.....no mas, no mas...

_________________
A+ (98) - Cammer Test

Conscientiousness is the defining feature of OCPD from which many of the other symptoms follow. http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/3/3/2158244013500675


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:09 am
Posts: 1083
Kid,
I believe that I have been in my relationship with my OCPD partner longer then you have been on earth ,so I know a few things too. And yes my shit does stink.
You have made several post in the last few days where your self righteous arrogance for being gifted comes shining through..soooooo OCPD
Good luck with this.
gs


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:26 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Southeast US
kk's statement:
"At the core, people with OCPD are very emotionally sensitive people. Emotionally sensitive people are, by nature, very generous. They want to help others, be nice to others, fix problems for others. This makes them feel good."

I've seen this in the 3 OCPDers I've dealt with. But there are nuances and ramifications that are not stated in kk's evaluation and that are not clarified.

As a non who doesn't need major fixing my OCPDer gets to spend her efforts on outer circle contacts to the extent that there are issues in our relationship. I can't fault her desire to do the church work, the caring for those in need, or while she was practicing science, the workaholism or perfectionism. But I judge that she puts greater value on serving outer circle contacts than inner circle intimates. As in many things, this is both a blessing and a curse.


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:31 am
Posts: 77
A few points from me....

I totally disagree with any banning of OCPD members - I already dislike the tendency to refer to OCPD members as if they are an alien species defined by a label, which ignores personality and the individual, and I personally value their contribution to the forum immensely.

I can not see the arrogance or preaching in the original post that others do, but if you go looking for it, then no doubt you will find it, and I guess conclusions are coloured by personal experience. I can imagine, however, that jumping to similar conclusions in real life relationships would set up a no win environment.

I too am saddened by the negativity which seems to contradict the aim of the forum to support those with OCPD, and their partners.

There's a lot of self-diagnosis going on, I'm not clear how many members/their partners have actually received a diagnosis, or have just come to their own conclusions. This doesn't make their suffering any less real, but does mean they might think they are discussing OCPD when actually they are not, sometimes it just might be that people are not very nice - end of.

MiN


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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 480
guy wrote:
kidkimbo wrote:
They want to help others, be nice to others, fix problems for others
Quote:

In my experience they start off being nice but sure enough there partner drinks there coffee the wrong way or makes too much noise whilst eating, then Armageddon begins.


In my experience it was quite the opposite of what Kit described. and Guy, when OCPDDH and I were dating and even first married, before actually living together full time- he was able to control it because all I saw was someone who just needed a partner, someone who needed a loving influence in their life. He loved my taking his shirts to the cleaners for him so he didn't look a mess and giving him morning wake up calls so he wouldn't be late. He loved me shopping for gifts for his family, it was all very cute and endearing. I didn't understand the red flags and DH was never cross with me, in over five years there were very few altercations. I most certainly wanted to "fix" the poor puppy dog. And in that sense, yes, I was an unhealthy partner bringing my own co-dependency to the table. As soon as the official process of living together actually began, so did the understanding of living with OCPD, although I had no idea what it was called then. OCPDH is quite nice as long as you aren't sharing his turf because it will always be his turf not a shared space.

And yes, negativity is here. It hurts in a very negative way to be on the other side of any type of disorder. I'm sure that OCPDH feels downright mislead now that he is beginning to understand that I'm catching on and not the catch all doormat he thought I was. I hear on a regular basis how unhelpful, rude, unappreciative, insensitive person I am. And every conversation ends with this type of behavior but he will never accept or understand nor try to the part to which he contributes. I'm as good as the next one when it comes to collaboration and teamwork in a marriage/relationship. It just can't be all one sided forever.

Edited to add - Yes, OCPD was an official diagnosis by a qualified psych in the field (that was refused by OCPDH) and yes I have also done counseling and will again for my co-dependent traits. I value input from all sides here, I just tend to be a little sensitive to the volatile nature of the arguments because I have too much conflict already in my life and need a safe place to come.

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MC (NON)


Last edited by MC1312 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: You think your shit don't stink?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 299
Quote:
Can we ban the OCPD'rs from our side?


Married-2-1
If you go into your "User Control Panel" (top-right) you can make certain members a "friend" or "foe". Your "foe's" automatically get filtered out of the thread your reading. You can cherry-pick who *you* want to remove.

I personally find it extremely valuable to have our green friends participate here. We won't learn much from each other, if we take a segregated approach. Many OCPD aware folks on this board have been extremely helpful in understanding the stench. (And separating mine, from my SO.) Thank you! for that.

KK's approach of categorizing OCPD as "Golden Shit" has been a unique perspective. Not sure what form of assmosis it goes through to become "Golden" - but if others want to line up with a knife and fork. That's their choice, and probably even a healthy way for them to start trying on some awareness and acceptance. Some of the more potent flavors of OCPD, have got to come through eventually if they are *really* chewing and trying to digest it. For me, it's further evidence how distorted the thinking can get. I can get myself about 1/2 of the way there, and try to see the P in PD - as a "Positive Disorder" as it's spun by KK. But I start to feel pretty dizzy - with some of his spin.

Friend or Foe ?


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