Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:13 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: OBX, NC, 'Murica, Earth, Milky Way, Local Galactic Group
sophie wrote:
Why did I let this happen? Why would I, or anyone of us, fall in love with this type of person?? Everything I read about OCPD talks a lot about their 'significant others'. These people DO have people who fall in love with them. How? Is it just that they are so good at hiding it for a while?

We've discussed this quite a bit in the past (see below). The term we use is "marketing". Courtship often is both persons showing their best side. But with PDs there is a lot to hide, but there is also a lot of overlooking of red flags by both individuals. And there is a biological basis for an OCPDer being able to maintain a positive relationship (mainly a dopamine boost) for the first half year or so, that temporarily offsets the overall negative nature of the personality.

http://ocpd.freeforums.org/ocpd-when-it-suits-them-t1884.html?hilit=marketing#p23421
http://ocpd.freeforums.org/post13147.html?hilit=%20marketing#p13147
http://ocpd.freeforums.org/post894.html?hilit=%20marketing#p894
http://ocpd.freeforums.org/post344.html?hilit=%20marketing#p344

In my relationship, there were few signs because we were so young when we met. As life progressed and especially after kids, the little quirks slowly morphed into unreasonable expectations and conflict. I traveled a lot, so both of us had lengthy breaks apart. I think that simultaneously helped and hurt our relationship and the kids.

But you are seeing things pretty clearly and at a lifepoint where the PD is firmly established and dysfunctional behaviors and coping mechanisms rule.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 988
Well, Sophie, you love this man and you know why. His behavior is not horrible now, for the reasons mentioned. I do not even think RC has it right, it is not just the 'love hormones' that keep the ocpd at bay during courtship. It is only when moving in together that they have 'power', that it becomes an 'irresistible' urge to control you, in the best of your interest actually. And it degrades, because we do not react well to it. So, ocpd'ers are not by nature awful, they become so in a relationship where they get the opportunity of achieving control.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 228
Hi Sophie, thanks for your kind words to me earlier in this thread.

We fall in love with them because they have great qualities and good sides. We fall in love with them because we are kind and optimistic and hopeful. I think I stayed with my guy for as long as I did because I believed that everyone has baggage and you have to work at relationships, but I took that too far. This was beyond all of that.

And the sad part is he wanted it to work too, he didn't deliberately uproot my life to punish me and have our relationship shatter. I know he is very lonely at times and I could hear the pain in his voice and see it on his face, so that kept me in it for awhile too, the thought that he needed me and that maybe I could help him. This was foolish and dangerous, his problems were too big, and he could not or would not connect the dots that his behavior destroyed our marriage.

And in your case, you're attached to his kids, that is a big part of it too. I know it's hard, you will get there, it takes time to figure it all out. But to quote Judge Judy, it never gets better than in the courtship, so if there are problems then, the marriage will be worse. I wish I had believed that. Instead I had a naive idea that getting married would help to solve our problems, but the opposite happened in my case.

Hang in there.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 11:39 pm
Posts: 15
Dear Sophie,

In my experience, things get worse with time. When I first met him, I felt the same as you. Feeling that things were great then but as time went on he changed for the worse and his thoughts and actions are becoming more and more extreme.

I know you love him and the advice everyone is giving you is very hard to swallow. Just seriously consider what people on this board are saying because these are people that know and have been in your position.

Mil


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
In addition to what others have said, two things come to mind here. First off, OCPDrs are a combination of disordered on the one hand, yet capable and functional on the other, albeit with lots of internal distress that we work hard to keep inside (while on our own.) But we handle things, generally speaking, as we see its our responsibility to function and be functional no matter what - and it's that "no matter what" that's often invisible initially, and then becomes problematic in relationship. The impairment manifests in real-world terms in the emotional arena, which really doesn't show up until things get more involved & intertwined, and can seem even more pronounced in comparison to the efforts to function. I can recall my SO saying often, how can a person who can do x,y,z on the one hand, fall apart so easily?

The 2nd thing, in my experience, is OCPD'rs cope with the apprehension and distress we feel by emulating. We look around and see how things are expected to be and we strive to emulate that thing. But that's a top layer, which, while it can be pretty ornate, falls apart when it comes to interdependence and intimacy. As another person put it, we can "show well." But we're not trying to trap anyone or do anything to anyone - we're just, unfortunately, trying to cope, and this forum is what it looks like when we do that.

_________________
'
People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: SoCal - 5 yrs moved out/4 1/2 yrs broken up w/6 year live-in with OCPD b-f.
Sophie, I too had a "seemed fine until we moved in together" boyfriend who was generous, loving, accepting... just a little quirky from time to time - but who isn't?

And then Mr. Hyde came out, bwah -ha-ha-haaaaa!

Seriously, another aspect, once the love hormones wear off, is "inner circle vs. outer circle." When you're more important to an OCPD'r, they will generally do more to try to control you/keep you safe. They may see it as THEIR responsibility to SAVE you from all the potential disasters about to occur because you left crumbs on the counter or the shower doors ajar or OMG don't you see that car changing lanes!?! They don't fuss at casual acquaintances in public because they don't CARE as much, but once your house is HIS house, once you are his live-in girlfriend or wife, and your kids "belong" to him, that will create anxiety and fear and ramp up any OCPD behaviors unless he is getting serious treatment.

While some OCPD'rs are even worse on vacation, for some, like my ex, it was if they left the OCPD behind when they locked the door. (Not that we didn't still have meltdowns.) I suspect your b-f may be like that, and so, when he comes to your house, he is in "vacation" mode. He is relieved of all responsibility - and it IS a huge relief.

But if you were to take the step of sharing a household, he would be compelled to make sure disaster did not ensue. And there are so many, many potential household disasters, from the way forks are loaded in the dish drainer, to spills and messes that naturally happen around kids, to dashing out to put something in the outside trash bin in ONE'S BARE FEET, egads!

Untreated or undertreated OCPD is about as good for kids as Hurricane Sandy was for the Jersey Shore.

_________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. – Anaïs Nin
Follow the latest Scoop: http://www.scoop.it/t/iso-mental-health-wellness
OCPD SO info: http://perfectlyawfulusa.blogspot.com


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:08 pm
Posts: 627
This "honeymoon" period isn't typical of OCPDers....Narcissists do it too. Same thing about the inner and outer circle.
Also I have an OCD friend...at her house she can't use her washing machine because it is "contaminated", but no problem at our house. If she lived at our house for a while, I am sure it would be in the inner circle after a while and slowly parts of our house would become off limits to her.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 41
sophie wrote:
These people DO have people who fall in love with them. How? Is it just that they are so good at hiding it for a while?


This is a really, really good thread for people who are comtemplating marrying someone with OCPD.

Why are there all these folks on this board complaining about their OCPD SOs? Why didn't they make better decisions about the compatibility with the person that they married?

In my case, my unOPCD H has a couple of different "Faces". One is the Happy-go-lucky Fun Guy. This is the one I was originally presented with, fell in love with and married. It's the same one who shows up now at places outside our home - at parties, at yoga class, at work or with his extended family. (He does not have any close friends.)

The other faces, Angry Guy, Anxious Guy and Perfectionist Guy have lived at our house since about a year after we got married. Happy-go-lucky Fun Guy is pretty much gone at our house (even though he quickly appears whenever a good impression is to be made to an outsider.)

In your case, consider that you are seeing one face of your BF, but that there are others who are lurking who may come out over time, especially when you share the same finite environment. Among non-OCPDers this is something that can be worked through. But with an OCPDer it is very different, as you can see from the personal stories on this board.

Trust your intuition, not your hope.

-Brooklyn


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 228
Wow, I really can identify with what Brooklyn has written, just came back from a legal proceeding related to my pending divorce from my OCPD husband. My lawyer, meeting my husband for the first time, found him "charming"! I could hear my husband and his lawyer and paralegal having some big laughs in the hallway during breaks in the proceedings. You would think he was an easygoing great guy.

But in reality I lived with a mean, stingy, cold, cruel, controlling guy who was wracked with anxiety and chose to handle it by treating me badly. The man who I fell in love with seemed to pretty much vanish.

Tread carefully all you who are considering this step. Someone wrote on the boards that the best it will ever be with an OCPD "partner" (I'm using the term loosely) is when you live apart. That was the truth for me. Those days were much happier than when I moved into his perfect house where nothing could be moved or touched or altered.

Even after all this, it is very painful for me. I loved him with all my heart and I so wanted it to be different.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:38 am
Posts: 76
My ex is considered by all to be a "stand up" guy. He considers himself a stand up guy - of course that also allowed him to have an affair, be emotionally abusive, leave his children to be a part-time father etc. He told me I am bitter - but what I really am is heart-broken.

It got really bad for me when I stopped working to have our twins. Then his anxieties had full rein. He worried about my incompetence, my lack of contribution to our finances - a full time job caring for twins did not count. My failures were open-ended and unlimited. Somehow it was ok for him (and me competent enough) to take 3 week adventure trips and leave me at home with 2 young children.

Now I am spending xmas eve alone while he (the non christian parent) spends xmas eve with the kids. I too loved him, smoothed the way, fixed the broken, solved the problems, anticipated new crises and ultimately got left because - I'm not completely sure why? I think I was no longer fun to abuse - I played dead - I was dead. I'm sure it's projection on my part but sometimes I think he cut me loose so I could love again. lol.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:39 pm
Posts: 157
The honest truth is that I didn't know how bad my OPCD was until I got married. It all depends on your bfs definition of your current relationship and what he has control of that affects with OPCD. He needs to be married to someone more submissive in order for a relationship to work with him. You rush into things because your normal and in love, but when he starts to withdraw and act out on his OPCD it will damage him emotionally and mentally. As a normal person being able to analyze this situation from all points of view, I consider you to be thinking very selfishly and taking advantage of his emotional state.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 988
mjcw,

I can relate to your first sentence, I am pretty sure the consequences of OCPD came as a big surprise to my wife as well as to me, neither of us expected it. In case the ocpd'er is older and has already had a broken marriage, the surprise should be smaller.

I do not get your last points. I agree that marriage will damage the ocpd person nearly as much as the non, but why that should be labeled as selfish is beyond me.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
mjcw wrote:
The honest truth is that I didn't know how bad my OPCD was until I got married. It all depends on your bfs definition of your current relationship and what he has control of that affects with OPCD. He needs to be married to someone more submissive in order for a relationship to work with him. You rush into things because your normal and in love, but when he starts to withdraw and act out on his OPCD it will damage him emotionally and mentally. As a normal person being able to analyze this situation from all points of view, I consider you to be thinking very selfishly and taking advantage of his emotional state.
Like bg, I agree with your opening points but am a bit turned around by the subsequent ones.
As far as the submissive part - the OCPD patterns can flourish with submissive people around, but the person will not - the person will grind deeper into the OCPD, likely taking the submissive person with them. So a dsyfunctional dynamic, in that respect, is what would 'work.'
And normal people - vs ocpd'rs? you mean - while possibly more able to see the disorder, are still human beings themselves, with their own particular perceptions of the world. We're all of us limited by our perceptions and our abilities to stretch them. I think maybe you're referring to the fact that she's aware of OCPD? But them I'm similarly stymied as to how this could be selfish. A person looking ahead to question the prospect of a healthy relationship with another and how that might play out.

_________________
'
People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
mjcw wrote:
He needs to be married to someone more submissive in order for a relationship to work with him.


Oh, my, no. I couldn't disagree more with this. When someone with OCPD is married to a submissive partner, the OCPD is unchallenged by either one ("...one disorder to rule them all..."), and both partners are drawn further and further into the disorder, becoming more and more miserable. Yes, the person with OCPD will have short-term relief for their stresses, because they can relieve that stress by controlling another person and making them part of their need to act out the dysfunction. But that's rather like an alcoholic who feels better about his drinking when he has a wife who will drink with him--in the long run, it destroys them both.

Yes, the two may be less likely to break up if they engage in mutual self-destruction, but that's not my definition of a relationship that "works". If the non stands up for themselves and the OCPDer, to keep the non, drags themselves out of the disorder to some extent, then the relationship has "worked" for them both. If the OCPDer cannot or will not drag themselves out and the non walks away, well, one person is out of the destructive spiral, and there's a chance that the other person might be hit hard enough by that experience to try to change.


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 Post subject: Re: what to expect if we marry??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 66
Location: NYC
If you love him tell him what he does to you and how he makes you feel. Tell him to goto therapy to get help and with time if you see a change, just maybe you would consider marrying him. If not dont marry him. I have OCPD and my wife left me a month ago she moved with her daughter. I just recently figured whats wrong with me and im getting help. Dont know if the damage to our marriage is permanent but, I hope to God i can get better and her and my daughter can heal.

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YOLIE C.


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