Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
LovethatOCPDMan wrote:
We all know (I hope) that if your spouse tells you, "Honey, I think I broke a bone; will you please drive me to the emergency room?" that The Right Thing to do is get the car keys and not argue - am I right?
Yes, you're right. :) But you're right in a language the OCPDr, at least in my experience, doesn't grasp in practice. Intellectually, in theory, in fantasy, sure. But in taking action? That alien, otherness that I often speak of - this is the heart of it.

What happens in these situations is a system breakdown, "file not found," from what I can tell. The rest - any action the OCPD'r does actually take - is fallout, dysfunctional, nonfunctional, whatever. Shame, frustation, fear, become defensiveness, anger, blame.

Empathy & compassion flow on impulse, a word more often associated with things like fun and spontaneity. But when you think about situations calling for empathy, some being illnesses, accidents, emergencies, these are unmapped territories that a person acts on with impulse, to caretake, to help, to allow the other to heal and feel better, without concern for doing it right. I'm not talking morally here, I'm talking protocol, even where and when protocol simply doesn't apply. We impose the word moral here sometimes in regard to the OCPDr but as I have before, I disagree with that. OCPD'rs work with plans and maps and protocol, those sorts of sanctioned "right" ways. But no two situations like these are alike, even if an illness repeats, or some detail may be similar, there are so many x factors that each one is completely unknown and uncharted. There's literally no conduit for the empathy to flow from.

Now, if a situation does repeat closely enough, or I've observed someone else taking the exact same action that's called for - I may do fine. If my brain detects a match, inside what happens is "aha, I know this one. I can do this one." Break a second bone a week later and I'll drive you to the ER without hesitation, so long as there's a clean & clear view of action to be taken.

_________________
'
People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:26 pm
Posts: 939
Location: Southeast US
quote Francie:
"Now, if a situation does repeat closely enough, or I've observed someone else taking the exact same action that's called for - I may do fine. If my brain detects a match, inside what happens is "aha, I know this one. I can do this one." Break a second bone a week later and I'll drive you to the ER without hesitation, so long as there's a clean & clear view of action to be taken."

I suspect that the difference with NONs is that they are continuously interpolating between points, that if there is somewhat of a pattern match they can move the pattern around so it mostly fits and take action. Or expand the pattern or reduce it to size it to the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
unixstuff wrote:
quote Francie:
"Now, if a situation does repeat closely enough, or I've observed someone else taking the exact same action that's called for - I may do fine. If my brain detects a match, inside what happens is "aha, I know this one. I can do this one." Break a second bone a week later and I'll drive you to the ER without hesitation, so long as there's a clean & clear view of action to be taken."

I suspect that the difference with NONs is that they are continuously interpolating between points, that if there is somewhat of a pattern match they can move the pattern around so it mostly fits and take action. Or expand the pattern or reduce it to size it to the problem.

thx unix, that's helpful. The all-or-nothing thinking obscures such nuance & I tend to idealize non's functioning in areas where I struggle.

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People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 299
Tripped over this today as I was researching some stuff.... thought this was a good thread for it.

DSM-IV personality disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2044500/


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:29 am 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
Francie wrote:
OCPD'rs work with plans and maps and protocol, those sorts of sanctioned "right" ways.


I find myself being reminded of Penny, on Big Bang Theory, trying to explain to Sheldon that he needs to buy Leonard a birthday present. One of Sheldon's friends tells her, "Tell him it's a non-optional social convention." She parrots that and Sheldon says, "Oh, OK," cheerfully and follows her off to buy the gift.

I don't know if this is relevant. But I was reminded.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:18 pm
Posts: 358
DuckNweave wrote:
Tripped over this today as I was researching some stuff.... thought this was a good thread for it.

DSM-IV personality disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2044500/


In my case the experts say I have only attributes of Cluster C (anxiety), especially OCPD. The other PDs in Cluster C are visible and motivated in my OCPD, anxiety, conforming, ethic norms. I am happy about the precise expertise in my case with logic explanations.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: SoCal - 5 yrs moved out/4 1/2 yrs broken up w/6 year live-in with OCPD b-f.
unixstuff wrote:
quote Francie:
"... If my brain detects a match, inside what happens is "aha, I know this one. I can do this one." Break a second bone a week later and I'll drive you to the ER without hesitation, so long as there's a clean & clear view of action to be taken."

I suspect that the difference with NONs is that they are continuously interpolating between points, that if there is somewhat of a pattern match they can move the pattern around so it mostly fits and take action. Or expand the pattern or reduce it to size it to the problem.
I'm wondering how an OCPD'r would cope with Legos.

A non would most likely sort them into groups by color: red, white, black, yellow. Or possibly by shape: flat "one's", "two's," "sixes." But without doing more than that, a non would be able to build, and if the right size and color brick was missing, would easily be able to substitute another color or shape or combination.

I suspect the OCPD'r would need to sort:red "two's" here, white "two's" there, and possibly even further, segregating out the dirtier, discolored bricks from those that were newer and more pristine. Would an OCPD'r get stuck if following a given pattern, and not be able to proceed with a white or yellow brick in place of a red one?

I'm just speculating, here, :D but wonder if anyone has real life experience with this, either their own or observing a spouse with the kids or grandkids.

_________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. – Anaïs Nin
Follow the latest Scoop: http://www.scoop.it/t/iso-mental-health-wellness
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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Pacific Northwest
LovethatOCPDMan wrote:
I'm wondering how an OCPD'r would cope with Legos.

A non would most likely sort them into groups by color: red, white, black, yellow. Or possibly by shape: flat "one's", "two's," "sixes." But without doing more than that, a non would be able to build, and if the right size and color brick was missing, would easily be able to substitute another color or shape or combination.

I suspect the OCPD'r would need to sort:red "two's" here, white "two's" there, and possibly even further, segregating out the dirtier, discolored bricks from those that were newer and more pristine. Would an OCPD'r get stuck if following a given pattern, and not be able to proceed with a white or yellow brick in place of a red one?

I'm just speculating, here, :D but wonder if anyone has real life experience with this, either their own or observing a spouse with the kids or grandkids.


Legos. We used to play with my cousin's set. So I was still a kid, but I remember that even then, I had to organize pretty specifically. It drove my sibling and cousins crazy. :) First by size, then by color...and if they were broken, then they had to go into a pile to be gotten rid of. And if the pattern was missing something, absolutely couldn't be replaced. Maybe leave a hole, if I could still make it structurally sound. But absolutely not put a different color, unless there was a pattern of a different color already inserted.

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"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six." - Lev Tolstoy


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:18 pm
Posts: 358
I loved the Legos time with the children. Naturally always the same color together and parallel pattern in Legos buildings.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:03 pm
Posts: 252
Francie wrote:
Yezrel wrote:
What you are describing don´t go with the attributes of OCPD because OCPDer have not this feeling of the own grandiosity and don´t put the own person in the center.
while the original context of our behavior may indeed be very different from grandiosity, the fallout on others around us can seem by all accounts to be similar. Since we're not inclined to question our thoughts or perspectives (OCPD is egosyntonic,) we don't let other ones in - including those of the people around us. Without sustained effort, the world & perspective we see in our heads is the only one we allow to direct our logic and reasoning. The fallout from this rigid thinking cause some similar difficulties to those living around us as for those people who live with narcissists. While the confusion between narcissism and OC thinking may seem frustrating for us as OCPD'rs, I think it's important to accept and believe that the fallout from our behavior can indeed seem similar.

Yezrel, my SO certainly has his flaws, but his dispute with my OCPD behavior doesn't stem from instability - it stems from him wanting to be treated as a person with his own thoughts and perspectives, and from wanting a relationship and household that is a partnership between two people, which is something that goes against much of the OCPD thinking.

Other people's experiences are not your own - this is one of the most important things that we as OCPD'rs can begin to accept and act on. We can listen and take in other people's experiences that don't necessarily match with what we have seen or taken in, or, especially, with what our brains are telling us.

While sharing experiences and information is what's great about this forum, it's just as much about, or more, taking in what others are saying and learning to incorporate new ideas into our perspectives.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:03 pm
Posts: 252
You moved me


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:06 am
Posts: 19
Location: Ontario, Canada
Despite the reaction that would typically be elicited around here by such a post as yours, I just wanted to reply and say that your post is absolutely beautiful. I know that a lot of people truly and painfully suffer because of this disorder and I would never, ever want to diminish or devalue their experiences. However, I am married to a man with recently diagnosed OCPD. I have felt out of place on this board and uncertain about whether or not I should stick around. The terrible experiences recounted here, tragically, over and over; They are not my experience. My husband may have OCPD and this does cause some issues in our relationship, but he is very much the man you describe in your post. He is almost nothing like these abusive people we hear about on this forum. He is a deeply caring, smart and beautiful man. He does sweet things like keeping a cat carrier in the car so that if we ever come across a stray or sick cat, we can take it home or to a shelter or a veterinary clinic. I love him like I love breathing, and I try to appreciate everything that makes him HIM and he does the same for me.

I just wanted to post and say that your writing truly touched me and validated the feeling I had been having that the stories here are not my story. My story is not perfect by any means, but my story is loving and overall, it is happy. There are a lot of arguments and maybe a couple of actual fights, but they all end the same way: we both realize that we love each other and that this is hurtful and meaningless. So we resolve it reasonably and then make sure to show each other how much we care. It is a breath of fresh air for me to read your post. If you don't mind, I may print it out to give him on one of those days when he feels down, alienated and isolated because of this disorder. It will remind him of the things it has given him, not the things it has taken away.

Thank you for sharing this!

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Though much is taken, much abides.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:39 pm
Posts: 256
Um ... No. Where does one begin.

This is delusional, I know because I recently thought this way (albeit not with the soaring rhetoric).

We OCPD'rs, when living unaware, are more like ...

We think we are great at everything, all the while negatively impacting everyone else around us.
We have such sympathy and compassion, walking on heads is justified in the end.
We are brilliant and devoted, and torture to live with.

The OP will ring true to an OCPD sufferer still firmly in it's grip. A self-aware OCPD'r will recognize and cringe at the existence of the post itself as reaking of OCPD.

_________________
Middle-Aged Husband Father OCPD'r Able-to-Change
Cramer : 72
Too Perfect : Buku Yes's
Al Bernstein: 13


Last edited by OCPD_Husband_SoCal on Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:39 pm
Posts: 256
To Paul's point about NPD vs. OCPD I can share my experience.

I realized recently that with OCPD, the obsessive undercurrents - the focus on everyone else's lives (control) - proved that being a bit Narcisistic is exactly how I need to tackle OCPD. It is literally a pendulum swing, polar opposite, at least for me.

I find I can even shut out the self doubt, fear, and 'song in my head' ... with laser focussed attention on what 'I' should be focussed on.

_________________
Middle-Aged Husband Father OCPD'r Able-to-Change
Cramer : 72
Too Perfect : Buku Yes's
Al Bernstein: 13


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 Post subject: Re: The Gift Unwrapped
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:18 pm
Posts: 358
OCPD_Husband_SoCal wrote:
To Paul's point about NPD vs. OCPD I can share my experience.

I realized recently that with OCPD, the obsessive undercurrents - the focus on everyone else's lives (control) - proved that being a bit Narcisistic is exactly how I need to tackle OCPD. It is literally a pendulum swing, polar opposite, at least for me.

I find I can even shut out the self doubt, fear, and 'song in my head' ... with laser focussed attention on what 'I' should be focussed on.


Good aspect! :)


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