Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 761
Quote:
unix: In a nutshell, you can't. He will hand you your head.
little more needs to said here.

Quote:
francie: I can point to markers in my life, pre-ocpd awareness, where information was available to me and I rejected it, and where seemingly unrelated information became something I let in, and became part of my path to awareness (seen only in retrospect I mean.) And then finally a convergence of information and acceptance.
I see this too. Information does filter into the system. But, any direct and open approach is doomed. The demand resistance/denial mechanism is too quick, too strong, and has a long memory. All insults to the system seem to require an escalated and repeated pay back. Here is where much trouble digs in. My guess is that if you confront your PD partner openly and get a reasonably accepting response - it likely indicates an enormous fear of rejection and loss. The compromise of engaging the conversation is mostly a short term survival tactic. All progress must be made whilst keeping their sense of self respect and self esteem generally over inflated. The whole business is awkward like eating hot soup upside down with a straw. For all who choose to stay, abandon any hope of quick or easy progress. :!:


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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:03 pm
Posts: 252
If it was difficult cognitively and emotionally to have "let in" and put together each and every piece of the puzzle to form a "whole" picture and I am not the one with this disorder then I agree with how Francie writes about the "hugeness" of becoming "aware" that you are a person who has this disorder.
As loved ones and emotionally wrapped up with our SO it can be very scary when we don't understand what we are seeing and even when we do so I can only imagine being the person with the disorder having our core beliefs and realities challenged. In some respects it is asking the person to deconstruct themselves if they can and rebuild parts of one's personality... but how to do this? Where to begin? What aspects to work on? You are at sea without a map!Your sense of trust in yourself is taking a major hit! All is up for questioning. How scary but also how much opportunity to live with more awareness.
If a person could live experientially what we as nons live...if pple with OCPD could really really feel, hear, see, taste, understand what the non's lived experience is like, then I would guess? that if there was a "magical" world of choosing to be a certain way an aware person with OCPD may "choose" to have some of their traits removed...Not all their traits... just the ones that make it difficult to achieve greater depths of intimacy and inner peace., the ones that hurt others. Only a guess. I do not want to make major assumptions here. I am not saying all of who we are is a choice. First you have to be aware of yourself and we all have blind spots, then we have to "try" to modify things about ourselves and even then who knows how much we can do that.
I believe one step is constantly questioning ourselves about the need to "control". As with many anxiety disorders unless it unsafe to do so, the only way to decrease fear and anxiety is to face the very things we are most afraid to do. Support around us is huge. We need to test the waters, stand up to our greatest fears and see that we are still okay... we came out of it and maybe better for having faced the anxieties. Running away magnifies the fears.


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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:59 pm
Posts: 21
Good afternoon. I am a newbie to this. My SO and I are now broken up, after his pledging his love to me, promising to spend our lives together, bringing me home (first tine since his divorce 15 years ago that he brought someone home). He said I was the love of his life and I don't doubt it. He is the love of my life. I am 49 years old, with two grown children, been married twice, once to an addictive personality person, once to a man who raised my oldest as his own since she was two and is still a friend. That being said, I never clicked with anyone the way I clicked with my SO, as my best friend, my confidant, the most intimate. Things were going great until the engagement and the changes looming before us. The arguments became worse, the changes he made to his routine during our courtship became difficult for him to maintain. Our mutual friend, who is still friends with both of us, once told me that in all the years he has known my SO, he never saw him be so dedicated and attentive with any woman, but he wasn't sure how long my SO could keep it up. Well I guess he could not. The arguments got worse, the attentiveness reduced, my insecurity increased (and I am a very accomplished woman who worked her butt off to get to where I am).

We broke up a few times. This time for good. He talks to no one. He talked to me about everything in his life, good and bad and I think I know more about him than even his family. He loves his family but keeps them at a distance. He has only one real friend, our mutual friend, but keeps him at a distance. He never kept me at a distance.

I could not believe when he actually agreed to go to my therapist. He ended up having to drive 45 min in traffic and blocking 4 hours in his workday to do a two hour session, one on his own and one together. He opened up to the therapist, told him he 'shuts down', which he knows is not good, agreed to use some tools from marriagebuilders.com and Fall in Love, Stay in Love. The first opportunity to use those tools he shut down. I am at fault for all arguments. He is an incredibly intelligent man, very successful, low self esteem, rigid, routine, always right,

After our last break up, I went to my therapist and he told me he believed, from all that I told him about my SO, his family, his upbringing, that he has overfocused behavior and possibly an overactive cingulate gyrus. After reading much of the research, I believe this is true. During my research, I found OCPD. I have a friend with a daughter with BPD, I am aware of OCD. I did not know about OCPD and I was a psychology major. I took the Test for overactive cingulate gyrus on his behalf and he definitely fits the bill. I took the Cammer on his behalf and he is 65 or possibly a little higher.

I truly believe he is OCPD with the overactive cingulate gyrus possibly being the cause or contributing to this.

My therapist applauded me for loving him enough to want to help him through this, even though we are not together, knowing that I have hopes of working things out. I know most of you just say move on, but I have never been happier in my life than when we were happy and I have hopes that if it was there once, it can be again. I know most of you say, it was never real, but it was. I know he still loves me and he is hurting too.

I printed out information from Dr Amen's book, Your Brain in Love, the chapter on Overfocused Lovers. My therapist gave me printouts on some clinical research as well. I wrote him a letter telling him I still loved him, that I hoped that he would read through the material, for himself, not for us or for me. I challenged his intellect by suggesting he do his own research because I know he is an intelligent man with a strong sense of curiosity. I told him I could not be with him if he chose to continue to hurt me.

Our last encounter prior to me going to my therapist, finding this out and giving him the material, we made love, which was at my request. With no pressure, he was loving, attentive, the man I fell in love with. The next day, he was playful, but needed to go slowly. We argued. He admitted he could not be okay with not having me in his life, but that he was a man who needed a lot of alone time, which did not allow for a relationship. This being said after the argument, his fears returning and his anger because I chose to go on a date with another guy, although he said he was okay with that.

So I went to my therapist, as mentioned, provided him with that material and have no contacted him in almost three weeks. He was used to seeing me at the gym, but I have been staying at my house on the weekends and not going down to my boat (he lives nearby the boat). He has made extra efforts to visit our mutual friend, once he realized I was not there (my boat is on the pier with our mutual friend's boat). He normally tucks his head in his shell and licks his wounds, so I found that odd and so did our friend. Clearly he is upset too. I am sure he is angry about my saying he has issues. After reading all this material on OCPD, I don't know if he will ever acknowledge any material.

HRH gave me hope that maybe he will. He is an intelligent, curious man.

My question is, what else can I do to help him with this? We are not speaking, but I am sure if I opened that door in some small way, we would. However, it would be on his terms and he would need to have the upper hand, which is not healthy.

I have had my share of relationships with addictive personalities and don't particularly feel like causing myself any more heartache, but the good did not outweigh the bad in that circumstance. In this case, the good far outweighs the bad and no relationship is perfect.

Any and all advice on how to proceed would be appreciated, but 'get out while the getting is good' while I would appreciate the thoughts, is not what I am seeking at this point.

Thank you for reading this very long message, if you got this far.
I truly love this man, and am in love with him. I miss my best friend.


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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: SoCal - 5 yrs moved out/4 1/2 yrs broken up w/6 year live-in with OCPD b-f.
OtherWorld - greetings, heartfelt sympathy, and healing to you.

As you so acknowledge, "giving in to him" would not be healthy for either of you; akin to buying the crappy cereal for the screaming toddler. Momentary fix that creates more future problems. He may be intelligent, he may be distressed, he may be in love with you as much as you are with him.

But YOU cannot fix him. You have led this horse to water - whether he drinks or not is totally up to him.And it's very sad, but the likelihood is, he won't.

Everyone is an individual, so there is always hope, BUT lots of nons on this board have approached this with love, patience, intelligence, research, determination, every possible tool in the toolbox... and still not had a positive outcome. Wishing your experience will be the exception, and sending you hugs & healing.

_________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. – Anaïs Nin
Follow the latest Scoop: http://www.scoop.it/t/iso-mental-health-wellness
OCPD SO info: http://perfectlyawfulusa.blogspot.com


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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:59 pm
Posts: 21
Thank you LovethatOCPDMan for you kind words. I do still have hope. This realization is still very new for me and I have not given him information on this, just on Overactive Cingulate Gyrus, which I believe may contribute if not cause this. I was a psychology major and was going to go on and get my Masters, but went into a different field after school, although my degree does help in my field. That being said, I know there are a lot of other factors why people develop these behavior patterns and/or defense mechanisms. Seeing all this on the forum has helped me to better understand him, knowing much about his history and his upbringing from him and also from his family. It also helps me to see how I could have handled some situations with him better, with a more positive outcome. That's not to say he doesn't need to make an effort to recognize some of his unhealthier behaviors that are negatively impacting his life, personally and to be honest, as successful as he is, there is some negative impact on him professionally. He does exhibit that 'condescending' behavior with subordinates who seem less capable than he, but I think that is not arrogance, but insecurity. It has not had a negative impact directly on his professional life, but improving in that area could only have a positive impact. Who knows if one day that negative behavior will not have a negative impact. However, I know for a fact that his negative behaviors have a negative impact on his personal life, on us and on me.

Some of his quirks, however, have had a positive influence on me, helped me be more organized, stricter schedule on my workouts, etc. It's not all bad. When things are good with us, they far outweigh the bad. I think if he recognized that some of his negative behavior associated with OCPD has had a negative impact on his life, to include us, combined with the fact that I am now aware of how to better respond to him when he is not able to control it (but at least making the effort to try), that he could be one of the hopefuls that I have read about on here.

I am new, I cannot just give up and walk away at this point. I do think he needs a little more information on OCPD because I found it researching the other stuff. He may, or he may not find it himself, but the information on OCPD is much stronger and informative and would therefore offer more support of what I hope he sees in himself, by seeing it in others. I think he needs that lead.

I have not decided if I want to share those behaviors with him, by sharing that I think he has a set of behaviors and traits that he shares with others, that may be helpful for him to recognize. I allows disliked the labeling of people that the DSM's have done over the years. People with serious psychoses get labeled, but people with problems, while some more serious than others, get labeled and pigeonholed, and it is not a positive experience. I would not present it to him that way, if I do at all. I do think he needs to be pointed in that direction though, because the information I gave him mostly likely will not.

I do agree, however, that he will have to be the one to make the decision to do the actual research, do it, and recognize those behaviors in himself...and most importantly, make the decision to make some adjustments and do some work. Should he do that, I would work with him, as a couple should be a team and work together. I cannot fix it for him, but I can be supportive of him and do some of the things that other supporting nons have written about that have helped their OCDPer (I use that term, although I don't like labels, because I know of no other way to put it at this time).

I cannot wait forever though. I am a smart woman and I know that.

I also have faith in God and in him and I will wait.. I may share a little more information, then wait some more...but again, no one can or should wait forever and he will have to be the one to take the first steps.

Thanks again for the encouragement and the hugs.


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 Post subject: Re: how to tell him you think he has OCPD?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:59 pm
Posts: 21
Well, I finally told him I think he has OCPD. I tried to focus on the behaviors and less on the disorder aspect. I told him, after seeing him and realizing I cannot handle being around him and not be with him. His quasi silent treatment also seemed to be punishment for not having communicated with him for five weeks. I could not handle that, as well. I shared the information with him, I told him about Too Perfect and shared some others' stories here, stories of those who have accepted their diagnosis. I told him I loved him and that if he decided he found himself in any of this information, and wanted to work on himself, I would be there for him. I told him I could not be around him at all, if he could not. I told him it was okay to not be perfect, because no one is. I told him I would email the information for him to look at, and sent him the links to this site, and some excerpts from Too Perfect. In the letter, I asked him several questions, as someone had suggested, such as, 'how is your inflexibility and rigidity negatively impacting your life? Are you happy? Do you want to live your life alone?' I was very nice about it. I ran the letter past my therapist before sending it. I wanted to ensure he understood I was not saying he was a screw up and not criticizing him, while letting him know I am there for him, but cannot be around him should he choose not to try to figure things out for himself. I figured he would be completely angry with me, possibly hate me for it. He listened the entire time to what I said on the phone. I don't know if he read the letter or the other information, but he is curious by nature. I vowed to myself I would not speak to him again, unless he initiated contact and was ready to figure things out for himself. I have been good about that. That was last Tuesday I sent the Email.

On Thursday, my adult daughter told me she had reached out to him before Thanksgiving, before I told him about the OCPD. She was thinking about him being alone on the holiday. My daughters care a lot for him, still. He was out of the country and texted her back that he could not meet her for a run.

I thought he was out of town again this weekend, so I went to our gym at our normal time (I intended to change my workout time, so that I didn't run into him). Apparently his trip was canceled, for which I was grateful as it is not safest part of the world to be traveling to right now. I didn't speak to him. As I was going upstairs to do my cardio, I stopped to reply to a text from my daughter (I read my Nook on my phone while on the elliptical...not a slave to the phone), he was leaving and passed by me and waved. He seemed nervous. Clearly he was uncertain how to act around me. I am guessing he does not hate me or he would have just passed by. He had the opportunity to do so, since I was distracted.

I texted him later saying I did not know my daughter had reached out to him, and that it was not at my request. I told him that the fact that she reached out to him should tell him something about how much my girls care for him and that he should try not to shove everyone out of his life.

I still feel strong and able to stay away. I'm still sad and miss him though. I'm still praying for him.


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