Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:02 am 
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Posts: 417
I am starting to detect the tension and agitation buildup in H. Decisions about selling the house, him finding a new place has been interesting. He also has some larger items for sale and I continue to get the play by play on calls and emails he has received.

I am documenting a conversation I had with him yesterday. There is the possibility that someone that I work with could be interested in purchasing the house. She asked me for a price, as anyone would, and having that conversation H was interesting. He wants to do a FSBO with a really high price to attract a Californian who could just pay cash for the property. I have studied the market and it could be an option, but when we do the FSBO it will be me dealing with the circus and freak parade that will follow. H will show the house but the work on the front half will be me. Several times I gently brought h back to the house conversation when he went off tangent. He also kept saying you are trying to help me now, this is what I have been asking for all along :roll: . I reminded him, in a light factual way of a conversation we had in mid January about selling the house, renting something, and using that money for his aviation. I stated the conversation verbatium in a calm factual way because it was one of the final ones that pushed me over the edge. When I had suggested the sale I indicated we could probably net X less what I put as a down payment. He responded "If that is the way you are going to talk to me, then this conversation is over". Apparently, according to him, he was 'confused' and did not understand what I was saying with everything that we had done with the refi, blah blah blah. :? :lol: and went off to explain what he was feeling. I was thinking, um no this is righteous indignation with a heap of anger. This is not confusion.

I received a very long email with him attempting to articulate his feelings and talking about some things in his past with his family and their behavior along with several other areas. Some of these areas had come up in MC and we had discussed a some of these areas before he would get angry and shut down. It is probably good he articulated this for himself. I read it and was not moved, just a little sad to see the struggle and hopeful that he may find more awareness in time. I feel a bit guilty for that but I also know the amount of work I have done on myself over the past several years with IC, our MC, books, online articles. It is hard and messy. You can't get around it. You have to do the work.

I am going to keep things calm and continue to move it forward. I am concerned there could be a buildup and explosion with what I am seeing, but I am going to hold the course. This will happen. I am hopeful that the fear of losing money will help to keep him in check a bit, and we shall see.

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:37 am 
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Posts: 43
I found the house conversation here and reread it:
post80007.html#p80007

Quote:
"He moves on to the emotionally and financially devastating financial position he is in and HOW could even con sieve of this, blah blah DRAMA.... I say if we sell the house when we find the right rental, we could next X amount with y amount being what I put down on the house 7 months ago. He says " If you are going to talk to me like that, this conversation is terminated". I say, "ok" and go about my business, getting some breakfast and keeping it lite. He relaxes and becomes chatty."


I think my husband sometimes does a similar shut down. Except mine doesn't tend to take it out on me. He just gets flustered and says he more time to do whatever research.

Your husband might have been confused back then. To me it sounds like he is trying to save face right now.

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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:58 pm 
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Posts: 417
thenightisover wrote:
I found the house conversation here and reread it:
post80007.html#p80007

Quote:
"He moves on to the emotionally and financially devastating financial position he is in and HOW could even con sieve of this, blah blah DRAMA.... I say if we sell the house when we find the right rental, we could next X amount with y amount being what I put down on the house 7 months ago. He says " If you are going to talk to me like that, this conversation is terminated". I say, "ok" and go about my business, getting some breakfast and keeping it lite. He relaxes and becomes chatty."


I think my husband sometimes does a similar shut down. Except mine doesn't tend to take it out on me. He just gets flustered and says he more time to do whatever research.

Your husband might have been confused back then. To me it sounds like he is trying to save face right now.


Thank you for posting this, I realize this was the perfect example of where I "soften" the memory - there is a difference between this conversation is "over and "terminated". I am sure this is why I kept the journal here, because by posting what has happened at the time, I remove the 'softening'. Things like this should not be softened.


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Spent the last 4 days staying at the previous house while H was gone. This was planned so I could watch our other 2 dogs while H traveled. During that time, I got some additional furniture moved, staged the house (shopped for pics etc from big box stores), and had it cleaned. I realize this afternoon how tired I really am.

H got back and he was a little overwhelmed by what I had accomplished. I did have movers take the big stuff on Friday, but all the other moving of furniture left and redo of rooms was done by me. He asked, who helped you? I told him I hired movers to take the big stuff and I did the rest here. I could see him processing. Not happy but contained. We has some additional conversation about next steps. He's crying, I'm crying. He is wanting to talk about what happened and I told him I would be willing to have those deep conversations once we have filed the paperwork and completed some things. That I was more comfortable with that given everything that has happened over the past several years. He tried to draw that out more, tried to shift things around, but I would not go there.

He talked some about what he is learning about himself and some of the things he is working on. He wants to us to continue to be in each others lives as much as I would allow it. He talked about a few other things. I am listening to him and I get the picture of the him walking around on a circle, round and round. I processed a bit with a friend of mine and she said he can't see his part in this. He didn't invest in counseling so he does not have the tools to process this part. I wonder if this is the OCPD - I will keep going on this path because that is the way it is done, or its the only way I know it SHOULD be done....

Hard day, I have cried alot. Come home to a messy disorganized house. Its getting there but still hard. Time to practice some self care today.

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:13 am 
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Posts: 2315
This is so difficult DF. Just a move with a fully supportive partner is overwhelming and stressful. This is so much more. Add an agonizing decision to separate from a partner who you have helped to function for decades. It's hard to stop "helping". It's the self care that will save you. Many nights I have come home exhausted and overwhelmed and have literally had to "mother" myself. Told myself to eat well and get some rest. Love yourself as you would a child or a sister or a friend. Take care of YOU, dragonfly. You're worth it and will be so much better off when you're on the other side. Hugs!

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:23 pm 
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oooo! I understand how compartmentalizing their personalities and choosing to believe there is a real person and a disordered person and they are two separate beings. Maybe could help you cope and if that's your way, and it's working for you.


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Posts: 417
mariobryant wrote:
oooo! I understand how compartmentalizing their personalities and choosing to believe there is a real person and a disordered person and they are two separate beings. Maybe could help you cope and if that's your way, and it's working for you.


That ties into the hope side Mariobryant, that somehow they are separate. But they are not. I relate that to an alcoholic somewhat. The 'he's a great guy when he is not drinking'. That if that other side could just go away, it would be fine. So hard, but that feeds the hope, well things are good when the "angry guy" is not here. But you can't predict when the angry will show, or you might know the triggers and do everything you can to divert it, but he shows up anyway. I go back to my flooding creek analogy. Its coming and there is nothing I can do to prevent it. It's funny that comes up now as we have had a lot of flooding in our area. There is one part of the road that I drive on that each day you could see the creek continuing to rise until it went over the road. Nothing could be done, you just have to wait for it to finish. I've been taking a different route until that time. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:54 am 
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Posts: 417
We continue with the separation of the household items and getting the house ready to market. After some frustrations with trying to get a washer and dryer into my new place, I asked H for help. It has been a month since we split and it continues to progress so I felt comfortable letting him know where I live. He was very happy to be able to help and show how he can be helpful during this process.

We continue to have some conversations and emails that on the surface seem genuine and what I would call leaning towards a hoover type exchange and/or let me show you how much I have grown/changed, and then there will be a quirk within it that I catch. H is following a more spiritual path, according to him, and now feels like he can share things with me about what he is doing. He mentioned in an email yesterday asking me to watch my "sour language" as that attracts negative energy. He has learned to move past that. I read that and thought hmm, me? talk about projection deluxe. We have had a few conversations where he turns it negative and then says I turned it there and we should not go there.

I will finish paperwork and hope to get it filed in the next 2 weeks. His mortgage loan officer said he cannot be preapproved and make an offer on a property until our house is under contract. I have started that process with FSBO with a target date of 4/15 to list with a realtor. He wants to maximize the equity out of the current house, but his number may be unrealistic. We shall see.

I continue to observe my feelings. This is hard and messy. At times I am lonely and miss my friend. I cry. Then I remember angry guy, I read my post here and other journals I have kept. I think about the quirks that happen in our conversations and emails that reveal while some things sound good, the other side is still there. He has to keep it in check for us to continue to interact, so that is really telling also.

Keep Moving Forward

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Posts: 417
Quick Post -

We put one of our dogs to sleep on Saturday. The deterioration was happening for some time and we knew it would come. I went to the house and stayed the evening, separate bedrooms, and brought the other dogs down. We enjoyed a nice evening and a morning. Did a few things around the house for staging and reviewed some other items to be moved to my place. It was nice to experience the pleasant part of our relationship. It was not all bad because I certainly would not have stayed as long as I had. It was nice and it was sad. I have no illusions that "maybe it could be different" because it can't be.

I observe the disconnect between the words and the actions, and the continued projection. I will have papers done this weekend and hope to review them next week with H and then file. After they are reviewed and approved by the court, there is a 90 day cooling off period. After that cooling off period I will move towards more separation. He continues to insist he wants to purchase a house near the rental I'm so we can still be in each others lives. I don't think that a wise idea as that distracts him from pursuing the aviation passion he professes to be what he wants and has wanted since he was a boy. I believe there there will always be SOMETHING that stops that because it does not happen perfectly. When it comes down to it, the only thing stopping him has been him, for as much as he complained of lack of money and in the end it was me and the "damn" animals were preventing him. NO. He was preventing himself. Why, I don't know. Perhaps it is easier to have an excuse on why it can't happen then make the wrong choice. I wonder if it this is a paralysis part of OCPD. I can't fix it or help him, though I have truly tired.

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Posts: 36
I just wanted to say absolutely to your suspicion. Part of having OCPD for many is low self worth that we feel we can counter by being successful or succeeding in the things we try. By thinking that way we set ourselves up for failure, because trying something isn't good enough. Trying something and doing alright at it isn't good enough. So before we can more forward on something we need to eliminate every X factor. Basically we need every external influence that's out of our control to be perfect before we jump into something. That way we have the absolute best chance of success. What that means is that we may have all these lofty goals or ideas, but we will procrastinate until the ends of time because of such an intense fear of failure or fear of not being good enough.


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:59 pm 
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my_life_in_debris wrote:
I just wanted to say absolutely to your suspicion. Part of having OCPD for many is low self worth that we feel we can counter by being successful or succeeding in the things we try. By thinking that way we set ourselves up for failure, because trying something isn't good enough. Trying something and doing alright at it isn't good enough. So before we can more forward on something we need to eliminate every X factor. Basically we need every external influence that's out of our control to be perfect before we jump into something. That way we have the absolute best chance of success. What that means is that we may have all these lofty goals or ideas, but we will procrastinate until the ends of time because of such an intense fear of failure or fear of not being good enough.


Thank you mylife, for the commentary and thoughts. I reviewed part of your video and thank you for posting that. This has has been one of the most heartbreaking things during my marriage - supporting my STBX dream of aviation and becoming a pilot. 17 years, and 4 states later he is closer but truly NOT where he should be if this was truly his lifelong dream. I have supported him in many ways, financially, emotionally, suggested we move for him, etc. His inability to jump in and move it forward and move towards his dream has been truly painful to observe. If you have read my back story I am a strong, resilient, focused and get it done type of person. Seeing things now I see that I have achieved things, in spite of him, instead of with him. That, perhaps, is one of the primary motivators for me to split now. It has only gotten worse in the past 5 years when STBX turned 40. Its like a creek running its banks. Its coming, it goes everywhere and there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to stop it. I choose to NOT live like this. It is hard but I know what I must do.

I am hopeful that what you have posted and what I have posted helps those dealing on both sides of the divide. I know I could just fade away and continue to do what I do. I continue to post for those lurkers and others that might need some insight, perspective, and an Ah Ha moment that gives them clarity for their next step.

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:27 am 
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dragonfly21 wrote:
my_life_in_debris wrote:
I just wanted to say absolutely to your suspicion. Part of having OCPD for many is low self worth that we feel we can counter by being successful or succeeding in the things we try. By thinking that way we set ourselves up for failure, because trying something isn't good enough. Trying something and doing alright at it isn't good enough. So before we can more forward on something we need to eliminate every X factor. Basically we need every external influence that's out of our control to be perfect before we jump into something. That way we have the absolute best chance of success. What that means is that we may have all these lofty goals or ideas, but we will procrastinate until the ends of time because of such an intense fear of failure or fear of not being good enough.


Thank you mylife, for the commentary and thoughts. I reviewed part of your video and thank you for posting that. This has has been one of the most heartbreaking things during my marriage - supporting my STBX dream of aviation and becoming a pilot. 17 years, and 4 states later he is closer but truly NOT where he should be if this was truly his lifelong dream. I have supported him in many ways, financially, emotionally, suggested we move for him, etc. His inability to jump in and move it forward and move towards his dream has been truly painful to observe. If you have read my back story I am a strong, resilient, focused and get it done type of person. Seeing things now I see that I have achieved things, in spite of him, instead of with him. That, perhaps, is one of the primary motivators for me to split now. It has only gotten worse in the past 5 years when STBX turned 40. Its like a creek running its banks. Its coming, it goes everywhere and there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to stop it. I choose to NOT live like this. It is hard but I know what I must do.

I am hopeful that what you have posted and what I have posted helps those dealing on both sides of the divide. I know I could just fade away and continue to do what I do. I continue to post for those lurkers and others that might need some insight, perspective, and an Ah Ha moment that gives them clarity for their next step.

Dragonfly21


Well I'm sure many appreciate you posting on here. When I first found this site and before I was aware of the OCPD only board, I spent a long time reading all of the posts. I was affected profoundly. I definitely wasn't happy about the amount of what I considered to be OCPD bashing that I found, but I was self aware enough to know much of what was being said was probably true and justified. And when I say I didn't like the bashing, I mean the the demonizing of the sufferers of OCPD. I would never talk about OCPD in a good way or excuse the poor behavior that some with OCPD display. I really struggled with the stories of abuse. I've never physically abused someone and I didn't know enough about OCPD, so at the time I thought maybe that was inside of me as well, and it scared me. I now know an immense deal more and know about the five subtypes and also that it's possible that those that are physically abusive have other disorders in addition. I'm rambling, point being is that I know the damage caused and as painful as it is to hear these stories and see myself in them, I only have empathy for partners of people with OCPD and I fully respect those that need to leave those relationships. What would be amazing is if OCPD was widely known about. The reason I say that is if more people knew what signs to look for, maybe people would get treated a lot sooner and a lot more relationship would be saved. Maybe that's hopeful thinking on my part. But it doesn't hurt to at least get the word out.


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Dragonfly, so good to hear that you're moving forward, though painfully, also relatively peacefully. I'm also sorry to hear about your dog.

It is really good that you are continuing to post here. It's making me think that an update is so past due for me. This is a wonderful resource for people struggling in both sides.

MyLife, I agree that it would be really helpful if there was more information readily available about OCPD. I commend you for posting here and the videos. I can't inahow difficult that must be for you.

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Things have been progressing with STBXH. We continue to be amicable and he has helped with a few things on my rental which has been nice. I am documenting the conversation yesterday because of some telling conversation points that I will need to be mindful of.

We sat down yesterday to review the divorce filing and the settlement agreement I had completed. The agreement on how we are distributing items I sent to him earlier in the week so we could discuss tweaks and changes before the weekend. I asked him a few times during the week if he had any questions or wanted to change things on the agreement and he said it was ok.

We sit down to review and discuss it, so I thought. He looks at the papers in front of him and says, "I don't agree with the agreement but I will not contest it" Trying to get reasons, or clarification of what that statement meant was met with a repeat of that statement or I will not contest the divorce. So demand resistance deluxe, manipulative, not sure what is going on here. I finally get him to start talking and he goes on to say we have not talked about any of this and that he has been told this is what would happen :? He said he tried to talk about this but that I said I would do the nuclear option. Statements about the nuclear option came up at least 4 times in the conversation. I reminded him of what I said to him the night I left that I would prefer we work this out but that I was willing to take the nuclear option with attorneys if necessary because I was done. He gets a little ramped up and says it is not fair because I have achieved what I have achieved because of him. :shock: Interesting. I ask him, in light of this, how would you like to change the agreement? He goes back to I don't agree with this but I will not contest the divorce.

He switches into discussion to our marriage and relationship and the he is still in the dark on why I left. We move forward on the merry og round for a bit until I calmly brought him back to, this is where we are NOW. This is what is happening NOW. I want to do this with compassion and kindness, like we have been doing for each other. He calmed down and was able to discuss a few things. We went ahead and signed the paperwork and I will file this week.

I know he misses the animal kids, me, and this disruption has ramped his anxiety up. He is keeping angry guy in check because if he lets him out I am not going to be spending any time with him or talk to him. He is hopeful that "we can be in each others lives and we move forward with our dreams". A nice thought but I am not sure how realistic it is. Some of our conversations are ok and others are on another planet. Again, I feel like I am dealing 2 separate people.

This interaction reminds me I need to have this completed as quickly and as smoothly as possible. There is a 90 day waiting period after filing so I will need to be mindful of this also.


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 Post subject: Re: OCPD conv with H
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:40 pm 
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It has been a few weeks. Continue to divide more household things and STBX has sold off some of his stuff to create a cash fund for his next steps. We have had no interest in our house with FSBO so we are moving forward with listing the property, considering the realtor's commission and what may be an unrealistic property value. Conversations with STBXH have been interesting, in trying to get a number out of him is a circular merry go round. What would he like, what would work with what you are planning with schooling and another real estate purchase? You would think that would be a simple 2 number answer or a range. Nope. :? "I don't know, I don't understand. Which then turns into I don't know where I am going to next and I can't make an offer on anything until this house is under contract".....and HOW will it get under contract if you don't even think of a number that is going to work for you need. I have indicated that I cannot continue to fund the mortgage on that place and my rent and expenses, which moves him into panic mode, "you say that and I think are not going to pay the mortgage" :roll:

We have final paper signed for the upcoming hearing in a few months which will be helpful that there is a timeframe. He continues to want to be helpful with my new place, to see the animals, and be part of my life. Trying to discuss how this needs to change has been difficult. He continues to indicate I know we are not going to get back together and we are divorcing, blah blah but while I think he pays it lip service, deep down he is hoping things change or he is on the river of denial because to acknowledge and embrace it would be devastating. Occasionally in our conversations angry guy will peek out with some stress or anxiety asking again why this is happening. When that happens, I stop and wait. I remind him where we are NOW and what is happening NOW. I would like to continue to work together, its the right thing to do. My friends have indicated maintaining the conversations and letting him help me is not helping the situation. I agree that case and I feel bad sometimes as I know I am maintaining this calmness to help him get settled and get to final papers. Getting back together is not an option. I no longer have any physical attraction to him, and he is a tall attractive good looking guy. It is like shut off, gone. My body reminds me of what the reality of the situation is and I honor that.

I have had some additional stresses in live besides this, with putting my dog down, my father's new wife having a serious medical issue, and losing a friend to an vehicle accident. Balancing the current situation and then all of this has made me exhausted. That and the cash ouflow that continues. I am eating well, getting rest, taking care of my self but still. Tired. Cry every other day sometimes.

Do I regret leaving him? NO. Would things have changed if I had stayed, pushed, tried something? NO NO NO. It was not going to. After all of those years, the counseling, the changing me, trying to help. Part of me is sorry I did no leave sooner, but its ok. I have left NOW. I know I will get through this and I will have to process, have my ups and downs. I love the quiet in the evenings. Don't have to wonder if we will fight, If I will walk on eggshells, if he is stressed out yet again by being disrespected.. Don't miss that at ALL.

There life on the other side. The scariest part was that first step. After that, the path appears.

Dragonfly21


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