Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Hi All, I discovered you through searching info on OCPD, which I had no idea that there even was a name to the behavior and only found out about through a therapist. I have to say that it is so healing to hear similiar stories, that I am not crazy and that there are many experiencing what I am going through. I will tell my story in hopes that I can get some good feedback on how to move forward. And maybe my story will resonate with some and give others some validation too.

I dated my H for 4 years before we married. We have been married for 26 years. We did not live together. He did exhibit some OCPD behavior before marriage but I was young, inexperienced with dating, and in love. As I look back, there were signs, but I ignored them. The first major incident happened the first night we were back from our honeymoon. We had just flown home late afternoon and he needed to get some sleep before heading out to his graveyard shift at work. He asked me to come in and snuggle with him at a certain time to wake him up. I agreed. As a few hours passed, I became concerned that he would not get enough sleep, so I justified to not wake him up and let him sleep that extra time, after all, we just came back from our honeymoon and had spent a lot of quality time together. No biggie, right? WRONG!!! He came out into the living room furious with me that I did not do what he asked. I was in disbelief. He did not talk to me for 2 days. I knew then that it would be a difficult marriage.
I spent the early years constantly trying to be a better wife. He would be constantly disappointed in me. I did not do enough around the house...so I did more. He criticized how I cleaned or cooked, so I did it the way he wanted. Inevitably I would do something incorrectly or I would innocently say something that would anger him. We would go through these cycles of me doing something wrong or not enough, he would get angry, I would apologize and say I will do better. He would be angry and not talk to me for days or weeks. I would then start talking to him regarding mundane things and he would start lightening up. And slowly go back to normal. I did stand up for myself in the beginning, but I got absolutely no where with it and started to think what's the point of even talking about it. He would not be open to look at it from my viewpoint or even consider doing something my way...so I slowly gave up trying. I did go to counseling twice during the early pre-Kid years, but both times the therapist would say that I needed to continue therapy as a couple. Well there is no way he would ever go to therapy for anything. He said so multiple times, so I stopped going. Foolish me, still in love, decided to start a family with him. Had 2 daughters, now 17 and 20. Things were going pretty well when my daughters were little. One time after a day at home after I cleaned and cooked, he told me to go shower. I had enough and told him in a very polite and respectful way, that I was 36 yrs old and that I was old enough to decide where and when to shower. He stopped talking to me. Next day he took off with girls and took them to a mini zoo. (Only time he has ever taken them anywhere other than visiting friends.) He did not talk to me for 3 weeks. He got along with his mom during that time too. She was physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive to her kids. And my father-in -law was an alcoholic, who died when my oldest was a month old. As the years progressed, my H became more negative, intolerant, depressed, critical, super micro-managing. He does not have hobbies outside of the home. I work weekends and he is off. So basically he had more time with the kids. At age 11, my older daughter started having partial-complex seizures. Around that same time when my kids were around middle school age...he was the worst with them. He never hit them, but would raise his voice to them and definitely was emotionally abusive to them, especially when I was not home. I would work my work schedule around their activities so he would not have to be involved. But he would have to take them sometimes where he would tell them they were not trying hard enough and if they did not try harder, he would take them out of the activity. One time I came home from work and my younger one was crying in her room because of his criticism regarding gymnastics. I told him how upset she was and he looked me straight in the eyes and said, "GOOD!! Maybe she'll remember to try harder!". Soon after she quit. My older daughter quit other sports because he was roped into coaching and he was awful to her too. She was not a good athlete, but intentionally was bad so he would be embarrassed enough to quit. I worked and still work full time. I was a Girl Scout troop leader til high school, room mom during elementary years, and managed my older daughter's uncontrolled seizures...I would do some cooking, the cleaning of the house. A few months before we left there were 2 incidents that really hit home. Both times, I was not home. He asked our 20 yr old to fill a container 7/8ths full in front of guests. She filled it, but not enough. He asked her to put more in to be 7/8ths full. My younger daughter stepped in to stop him, but he forced the older one to do it correctly. Another time he asked the younger one to collect recyclables in the house. She did and put everything in the recycling bin outside. He got mad because he told her not to put in recycling bin, but just to collect. He told her that if she had a job where he worked, she would be written up or fired for not following instructions. He has always done the laundry, maintained the cars, any house maintanence, watched the kids, grocery shopping, etc. He has never been lazy and always has been a hard worker to the point of excluding having any fun because THINGS NEED TO GET DONE. I am super appreciative of all that he has done. And have said thank you and how much I appreciate him a million times. Once, before we had kids, on a day off for me and a work day for him, he came home from work and went into the garage. After a while I went into the garage and asked if he loved me anymore. He said that was a silly question and told me that the chores have to get done. So I toughened up and basically stuffed away my feelings, but blinders on, and kept on going. The last several years i have slept in the guest room mostly because of his snoring and restless leg syndrome, but also because the guest room was my sanctuary. We have not been intimate in at least 8 yrs and never kiss on the check, hold hands or anything. He drove 100% of the love right out of me. After 8 years of uncontrolled seizures, my daughter had brain surgery a year ago and has been seizure free since. In May of this year, my younger daughter attended her junior prom. She did not want him to be involved with it at all, so I picked her up from school, took her to get her hair done, picked up
Corsage, and dropped her off at friends house. I picked her up at 1AM and was driving back and was pulled over by a cop. I freaked out and begged him not to give me ticket because my H would be so angry. I had no idea what I did. I did not think I did anything wrong. Turns out it was a fix it ticket for a non-reflective license plate. My daughter completely fell apart in the car. Really crying. And said, "We can't live like this anymore mom!". Next day, after H went to bed, she asked me to speed up the divorce process. She wanted out NOW. He did show love to his girls, cooked for them, etc. but the bad outweighed the good. I had contemplated leaving after she graduated high school, and had kept everything to myself until very late in the game. Anyway, after consulting a few close family members and getting feedback from my girls, we arranged to silently move out and have him served. The first month, he begged for us to come back and do counseling. My daughters told me straight up, they would never move back and I have had no love for him in years...so I declined. Been 3 months now and girls are the happiest they have been. Grades are still very good. Younger one is getting college acceptance letters and older one still in good health and taking nursing prerequisites at our local JC. I know that he loves the girls very much. They don't want to talk to him at all and do not want to see him. He said he loves me, which came as a shock. He is hitting the angry stage now. So who knows how the divorce will go. I am not innocent in this as I did not speak up and tell him all these years, .but in all honesty, he would not have changed. I constantly 2nd guess how I handled everything, but those close to me including my daughters say he would have not changed and I did it the best way based on the circumstances and that the only reason he was so desperate after we left is that we shocked him. I will have a very hard time forgiving myself, but after 3 months of incredible guilt and anguish I must find a way to forgive myself, move on, and be the best mom I can be. And be the best wife/ex-wife I can to him, without letting him walk all over me. I can go on and on..with all the examples over the years...but you would be reading for hours. After we left, many close friends came forward and asked me what took so long and that they saw things...so I know I did the right thing. Any positive feedback greatly appreciated. I am already doing a good job of giving myself negative feedback and have beaten myself up enough. Thanks for taking the time to read my novel. :)


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:40 am
Posts: 38
Hello Moovingon

Welcome!! Glad you found the forum!
It sounds like you've been having a really difficult time!
I admire you for finally leaving and providing a save haven for your daughters.

Leaving was the hard part, but in my experience the aftermath was even worse.
So hang in there! Things will get better once the fog has lifted.
I would strongly advise you to seek professional help to help you deal with all of this.
And gather yourself with a strong support group: parents, siblings, friends and family.
You will need all the help you can get!
You also might want to get yourself a really good laywer.
I've never dealt with divorce and kids, so maybe the others can give you some advise...
From what i read so far meeting with laywers is def a good idea.

Stop beating yourself up. You were right that your husband wouldn't ever change.
Now you've left he's lost control. And from what you've written he's started the hoovering.
The biggest advice i can give you is read all you can here on the forum.
Read the stories of lambkin, sugar, Fava, Rikki Tikki, Merabel, Juju, lili just to name a few
You'll be blown away with the similarities!
Also the "popular topic" has some amazing discussions and ideas too.

What is it your struggling most with right now?


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:26 pm
Posts: 579
I agree - don't beat yourself up. You will probably find with more time and distance from the day to day stress you endured that you will ride a roller coaster of thoughts and emotions. Fear, guilt, anger, elevation - all very normal amd part of the process of moving on.

A consult with an attorney is a good thing to do - you don't have to hire them or move forward. You will gain some information if nothing else.

I am 18 months separated with a 10 year old and haven't filed yet. I decided to try he and I working out as much as possible before filing. It's obviously been a bit slow - but we agreed on custody arrangements and remain flexible with each other on that topic. Almost have the financial stuff complete - that has not gone as well but we have worked it out.

You need to proceed however you feel most comfortable. This is a process - take small steps.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Thank you to both of you for giving me feedback! So much appreciated. I will read the posts that were suggested. It is so comforting to know that I am not alone in this. He was desperately trying to get back with me a full month right after the girls and I left pleading that he did not want to lose his family and that he loved the girls so much, (I know he does), but loves me more. Honestly, that is the most unbelievable comment. No intimacy, no physical touching-kiss on check, hand holding, nothing. Just talking about the mundane things that need to get done. It blows my mind that he said he loved me. I honestly thought by his actions, facial expressions, not really ever looking at me, that he did not love me. I thought that me leaving him would only hurt the pocket book, nothing more. Mind-blowing. Anyway, I had already hired an attorney way before we left and our exit was well-orchestrated. After a month and after I met with him to discuss, he was and is all business. We have had a house inspection, already met several times to divide the assets, have come up with a plan on how to proceed for paying for the girls college. He has now hit the angry stage. He is waffling on paying 1/2 of the girls' medical til they are both done with college. By law, he is not required to pay at all after they are done with high school...so unless I take him to court, (which will include expensive attorney fees and court costs), I will have to pay for their medical, dental, etc. We actually mediated all this without attorneys present. So what is left is selling the house. Anyway, that's where we are now. He has basically shut down all communication with me unless he absolutely has to. So we'll see what happens next. The more I don't see or talk to him, the better I feel. The guilt is beginning to subside a bit, which is good. My high school senior just got her final fall grades, straight A's...so I know she is focused and happy right now, as is my older daughter, so I know I made the right choice. I think that I have been controlled for so long that being free is really scary. And spending money on anything is scary too. I am lucky to have such a supportive family. Working on making some friends too. I am working on getting weekly therapist sessions for my younger daughter and me. Older daughter has to call to set hers up. Wishing everyone a healthy and hopefully happier holiday season! Will update soon. Hugs!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 676
Welcome, Movingon. I am the ex-wife of an undiagnosed OCDP husband. Our divorce was final a year ago. I don't post here much anymore because I am moving on now...but I pop back in from time to time, because when I was in the hardest parts of the end of my marriage, I found so much help and support here, and I like to check back and see how people are doing. I sometimes update my own thread but I haven't done so for several months.

I just wanted to empathize with you about how difficult it is to be married to an OCPD'r. My marriage wasn't like most around in here in a couple of fundamental ways (namely, we did have a deep love, affection and intimacy with each other), but the struggles and frustration and stuff that made me feel crazy because I could not understand his position was very much the same for me as you have described above. It was the most difficult thing I've ever gone through, just trying to sort out my own reality while living with him.

It is something people who haven't gone through it just cannot fathom. Even we cannot fathom what we are going through while we are actually going through it! Lol! But because of that, this forum is a life line and I will forever be so thankful I found it when I needed it that I will always have some connection here. Even though OCPD is no longer a regular feature in my life, the people here and the support surrounding the topic have provided me so much that I definitely want to pay it forward by continuing to come here and help if I can.

So having said all of that....

You sound like you are exactly where you should be. Your kids are doing well, and you are learning to have boundaries. Your H is hoovering but you don't seem to be wavering on your decision, so that is good.

I want to say that I get it that even though you are in this better place, it is still so very difficult. I also want to say that it does get easier as time goes by.

If you are a faithful or spiritual person, pray and go to church and surround yourself with any loving positive messages you can. That definitely helped me!!

Do you have sisters, a mom, cousins, anyone to talk to for general help, support and guidance? Do you have a counselor who understands OCPD? I sure wish I had had one of those when I was going through this stuff....it would have helped ME so much to have a physician talking to me directly and frankly about this disorder so that I could realistically understand what I was going through. It was so difficult to sort it out on my own...it took me about 10 years to finally land on OCPD information.

Please keep coming back and updating us even if you don't get replies for a few days. It gets slow around here, but people are reading and will eventually respond.

I have found that a great source of help to me has been reading the words of the "greenies", the self-aware OCPD'rs who are members here (their names show up in green, thus "greenies"). It helped me so much to read about their feelings, their logic, their decision making factors. It helped me get my reality more understood. It was sometimes painful to hear some of the things they said. But it also helped me by understanding that sometimes the things we non-OCPD'rs say are hurtful to the "greenies". How they feel completely misunderstood by others and vilified here on the board. How they are simply trying to cope with what they've got going on in their own mental worlds, the same way every individual does, but we do not all have the same mental features. So what seems logical to them may seem frightening to me, but also vice versa. This all helped me immensely. because there were times when my husband behaved, from my perspective, in a beastly manner...but when I spent time understanding the "greenies" here, I realized that from his perspective *I* was the one behaving in a beastly manner.

That is not to say that you should worry at all about whether you have been beastly to your husband or not. I am simply saying that sometimes when my H would tell me I had hurt him, I could not understand how or why until I came here and heard from other OCPD'rs what their experiences are like. And my H never did and never will understand how or why he has hurt me, because he remains unaware and has no way to find out anything about OCPD or anything that could truly help him.

If there had been anyway I could have helped him...I would have gone to the ends of the earth and back. But it was not to be. I do still pray he will find help in some other way. He and I are true friends now and all of the bickering is behind us.

Welcome again and please stay and update anytime you just want to vent or get some feedback. We understand!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:08 pm
Posts: 619
I would also think that your husband's "I love you" means "I liked it better having you in my life...someone I could boss around and do stuff. Now I have no one to boss around but myself and I do not like it."

I would also agree with others...see an attorney and don't give up on getting what is fair to support your children...it might be easier to give up now, but in the long run you may not be happy you did.


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 Post subject: Movingon meeting H for divorce talk Fri
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Thank you for all your feedback! I guess what I am struggling the most with is dealing with him through the process of divorce. I am beginning to feel less guilty between visits with him...but I spiral downward when I have to prepare to see him again. I am put together and all business when I see him for divorce talk, but I just hate having to see him. I see him tomorrow afternoon, Friday. I need to confirm with him that he does not want to pay for 1/2 of the girls' medical/dental, (He said that the last time I saw him.). The youngest turns 18 in April. By law, he only is required to pay 1/2 until she graduates from HS on 6/9. And hopefully he has not changed his mind on the plan to pay for their college. Otherwise we have split everything else down the middle. He and I have virtually made the same income...so it's pretty easy. The house will have to be sold. We were hoping to take advantage of IRS 1031 Exchange, (roll over proceeds into 2 other separate properties, so we don't have to pay the huge capital gains tax...But now found out that we would have to convert the house to income property and rent it out for a while before we sell. Not sure if he wants to do that or if I want to do that as we would have to deal with each other longer..we are truly fortunate that we money to fall back on, as so many don't..but again, it was achieved by being so frugal.so wish me luck! Feedback welcome. Will update soon!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:09 am
Posts: 1083
Moving on,
I want to validate your experience .You are not alone in your struggle with having this PD control your life.
My former h and I were together 35 years.I never stopped loving him I just could not operate in his reality and disregard mine.
You have taken a huge step by leaving.The 24/7 contact can wear your resolve to put you and your children first.You have made the choice to move out of his reality and on with your own.
I ,too, used the support of this forum and therapy to move on .Life is very different as I continue to reinvent my life.
Keep reading and posting. You will find your way.
Legal advice about divorce /separation is a good idea.So is therapy for helping you work through years of emotional abuse that can be generated by the thought patterns associated with this disorder it was invaluable to me to help me resolve the overwhelming guilt that I felt because Icould not do the backwards dance on eggshells and feel good about me.
Hugs,it is a hard road .
One foot in front of the other...
gs


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Hi Gardensanity,

Thanks for your validation. Wow, 35 years! And I thought I was in it a long time. It must have been difficult to leave if you still loved him. As I said in my original post, he drove the love right out of me with years and layers of control, criticism, and micromanaging behavior. Part of me is embarrassed for what I had allowed to happen. And the other part of me was so entrenched in it, that even though I would see that our life was not "healthy", I just continued on focusing on what little I controlled. I am working on getting a weekly therapist for me and my girls. I have an atty, but I know that she would like for me to be tougher with him...but I am looking at it from a purely financial perspective...how much to ask for and litigate vs what I am paying my attorney. So you are right...one step at a time. Thanks to everyone who has posted for me. As I get more aquainted with this forum...the more I will reply to other posts as well. I definitely want to pay it forward. We will see how my meeting goes with him tomorrow. Wish me luck!!

:)

Movingon


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Update from Movingon,

He cancelled today's meeting because he has a bad head cold. So I updated him via email on what info I was able to gather on selling the house. Hopefully he does not postpone again. Updating my atty as well. Spending the day with my girls now.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Hi all,

Thought I'd post an update, although not much to update. H postponed our meeting again due to a bad head cold. We are suppose to meet Tues 1/10. It will be almost a month since I saw him last. I have to say that it has been nice not having to see him. But I have to go through these meetings to keep the divorce process going. Girls are enjoying the holiday break from school. They are doing great! My oldest has become so domesticated! She made apple pie from scratch! They never, ever did anything in the kitchen before because of the micromanaging and criticism...so it's good to see. Younger daughter has appt with therapist on Mon and I am still searching for mine. Today's my mom's 80th bd! Celebrating with a party tomorrow, weather permitting. A big storm bearing down on CA this weekend. Big for us anyway, so we'll see if those from far can make it in tomorrow's bd lunch. Thanks for being here for me. Makes me feel secure knowing there are others who care and can relate. Wishing all of you a healthy, and hopefully happier 2017. Will update soon!

Movingon


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:26 pm
Posts: 579
Movingon - you sound really good! My ex and I are over a year separated and just completed the splitting of assets. I went the no lawyer route and feel like that worked for us, although I know I could have come out a bit better on the split, I also felt attorney involvement would have escalated his resistance and dragged on and on. We have found a polite and cordial relationship at this point - mostly text and email. He is very uncomfortable in my presence so face to face doesn't work. I endured quite a few lectures where I "wasn't allowed" to speak or respond. I just let the words go right on by - he will not likely ever believe that he contributed to the demise of the relationship and ultimately it doesn't matter.

You are seeing the other side - your life can be different and better! I suspect you have many ups and downs to come but you are moving in the right direction. Happy New Year!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
Hi Learntofly,

Thanks for your feedback. Yes I do feel better. A product of not seeing him I am sure. It's interesting how different paths to divorce work, don't work, backfire, make worse, etc. I have had an atty since the beginning of the process and don't know if it was smart or not. He gets very difficult when anyone tries to cross him so on the advice of a few close family members and my daughters, I chose to do with an Atty. We will see how it pans out. There are always pros and cons each way and I second guess myself constantly...but I guess it's part of the process and feeling vulnerable is part of it. It's all a chess game. Luckily I have my family to lean on. And I have a job. Thank goodness! So many have it so much worse. The money part still and always will scare me. We looked so good on paper, as married. Delusional as this may sound, if the girls were brought up normal, (they weren't), I may have stayed, (as disfunctional as that sounds), just to be safe financially. Being miserable was life. I just got used to it. But I know as tough as it is to go through...this is best for my daughters and me. To an outsider, it looks like I was just awful to him...leaving him, unannounced as we did, serving him papers-blindsiding him as I did. I made the best decision based on what we knew him as. What he was capable of...but it still hurts to hurt him so bad. Especially that his girls want nothing to do with him and the financial implications of not being together anymore. I don't love him at all anymore, but I do care about him. And then the guilt sets in. So it's vicious cycle. And I try to get myself off of the guilt train as much as possible. :)

Sounds like your divorce strategy is working for you. No one knows your spouse better than you and I am certain you made the best decision in terms of your plan. I hope your path continues to move forward to a better life for you. I am sure that is what we all want and also to hurt others as little as possible. Really stormy outside. I decided to get a hotel room near the restaurant we are having my mom's party. Hopefully we don't have too many cancellations.

Hugs!!

Talk to you soon!

Movingon.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 62
I met with him yesterday after a month of delays on his part. He came defeated. I went over some upcoming bills to be paid in terms of the girls. We wrote each other checks. He paid me the first child support check for a 3 month total. He just has to pay 4 more months and then he is done. Said he cannot commit to pay for 1/2 of their medical and dental til age 27 or they finish college, whichever comes first. He said that this whole thing destroyed him and that his bone aches and pains have gotten worse and does not know if he will be able to work that long. He turns 60 in April. Then he asked the status with my end of the divorce prep. I had emailed him everything to approve yes or no via email so I could keep this going during his postponing! It's like is genuinely forgot or disregarded the email. So now I probably have to extend the court date again to give us more time. A very good friend of ours passed away day after Christmas. I knew he was dying. He told me yesterday and said his family said to tell me not to send anything to them. It was genuine because I can tell from his response. So that family wants nothing to do with me ever again. I feel like such a villain. I start therapy Weds. I sincerely hope I can try to deal with this guilt because it is killing me. I keep thinking that I just should have moved my kids out and stayed with him forever. Will life truly be better for me down the road? Was it worth it to shatter him like we did?

Movingon


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum. Left H 3 mos. need support
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:26 pm
Posts: 579
I don't know enough about you or your situation to comment in detail, but from what I can tell - you didn't crush him. You held him up for years, you bore the brunt for him, you tolerated, supported and worked to help him hold his world together.

What you have done by leaving is stopped him from crushing you and your kids. You are brave and strong and saved three lives from suffering.

He is the only one who can help himself. You didn't cause his suffering, you didn't create it and you can't control it. You can only keep working toward something better for you and your girls - and that is exactly what you are doing!


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