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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
favasquash wrote:
Has the term "gatekeeper" ever been discussed on this forum? I can't remember.

I'm about to somewhat misuse it. It normally refers to someone who tries to take control of communication with someone else. So if you don't even know where your adult siblings live, and you know that you might have their phone numbers on slips of paper somewhere in a desk but you're not sure where, and you send their Christmas gifts to your mother to pass on to them when you all get together at Christmas, and your mother is always telling them what you said and telling you what they said, then your mother is setting herself up as "gatekeeper" to your siblings--you have to go through her, the "gate", to get to them. There's no reason to go through her, but you've always done it, and when you imagine calling them directly, you feel uncomfortable.

I immediately saw this as your husband "gatekeeping" the process of getting M up and into the world. Every little bit of it has to go through him--he controls her sleep situation and her elimination situation, and he controls when she gets to school. And when she's about to get to school on a normal schedule, so that his gatekeeping will have no effect, he makes sure that she is instead late. It's not even as if he would have been removed from the process--as I see it, he wasn't comfortable with the process having an outcome (her being on time) that's the same as it would if he weren't involved.

Is M getting to school late truly harmless to her? Is nothing at all useful taught or done early in the day? Do her classmates and teachers completely understand when she comes in late and disrupts whatever is going on? Or does that cause both learning and social problems for her?


she might miss calendar, and I would bet that the inconsistency might be a little disconcerting. Having said that, it is good for variety to occur with an autistic child. However, I just think it is bad form all around. The teachers understand because it is in her chart that she had sleep issues, but she doesnt anymore. So it is all predicated on a lie now.

Meanwhile he said tha the bee situation made it so that he couldnt cut up the squash for me before he left. I was thinking to myself that no, he was supposed to be dropping off M instead, not even cutting up squash. And he could have waited on the nest until he got back. But no. That had to be done right away in his mind. Maybe deep down inside he doesnt want her to be on time so he can "stick it to the MAN" for having kids gets to school so early.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
Well, getting her on time OR cutting up the squash would be complying with what he probably perceives as a demand. He found the course of action that allowed him to resist both of those demands, but also allowed him to gaslight you. ("You TOLD me about it and now you're complaining because I'm handling it? I can't do anything right! It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what I can do to please you!")


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
favasquash wrote:
Well, getting her on time OR cutting up the squash would be complying with what he probably perceives as a demand. He found the course of action that allowed him to resist both of those demands, but also allowed him to gaslight you. ("You TOLD me about it and now you're complaining because I'm handling it? I can't do anything right! It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what I can do to please you!")


Well maybe that is what he was feeling, but all he said was "sorry I didnt get the squash cut up because of the bee situation." I didnt say anything about it because it wasnt worth it. I just said it was okay because things happen. But I just was so frustrated. And because it was something that DID need to be done, I didnt know whether or not I was just being petty or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 2315
Testing - I can see this thread on the main board, but it didn't move up or show as unread.

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
For my own memory:

So today, dh did not have dd ready for school as he was taking out trash for garbage men. So I ended up getting her shoes on and ready for out the door. Uocpdh tells me he is taking her (he usually does, his routine.) I tell him I can. He then asks what I would prefer. Usually I have indirect conversation so today I decided to be direct. I tell him yeah, that it would be nice if he could take her. He starts walking away and then he says as he is doing so something to the effect of how he would likento just get ready for work and shower, but OKaaaaaay. I decided right then and there that the PA martyr thing was enough, so I took her. He then said to me later on "why did you take her?" I explained why and how he pulled a woe is me thing. He then said that yes he did becUse I KNOW he has to get ready for work, yadda yadda. . He told me that I was doing the same thing (martyr.) I said no, that I planned on taking her to school and only accepted taking her because he offered. I also told him that I know I need to work on being direct but that we BOTH need to. I was glad that I told him that I didnt take that characterization on myself. I was not playing martyr. He later on said, "I am sorry for the miscommunication. That was on me."

I was glad that he apologised without any "BUT'S" or "IF you were hurt" when it is obvious I am. But this time, I was a lot more objective and more frustrated than hurt. And the blame attempt didnt stick at all. It felt good to not feel bad or guilty. But I dont know if this apology will equal change.

I also just noticed his cussing and annoyance at so many things this morning, things that indire tly implied people doing things to make his life more work. In this case, it was toilet paper overflowing the garbage can that he had to touch (we DO have vinyl gloves to use). And then last night, he was all annoyed (?) and obviously disgusted with my special needs dd farting a few times. It was almost like he was insulted or aomething, such a strong reaction to farts. Anyway, I am trying to look at uocpdh globally as opposed to situationally to see what I want to do in the long term. I saw a big negative picture these last 24 hours. And the global view is of a perzon who is very negative and vindictive, even though he can be nice and considerate some. But dont cross him. He still has plans to get "justice" (aka revenge) on professionals who he has deemed wronged him.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:24 pm
Posts: 980
Location: Texas
I think you set some good boundaries here, Juju. I'm not sure how it will affect your H and his behavior. I think what you said today is important because you are beginning to see how setting a boundary is important regardless of his response. Your boundaries are for you. You are saying to him that you will not tolerate his victim mentality and his attempt to make you feel guilty for whatever reason.
You have made a journal record for the future. When you look back you can be proud of yourself. I know this wasn't easy.

-Lily

_________________
If you want to fly...you have to give up the stuff that weighs you down.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 2315
I agree with Lily on the boundary setting. Keep seeing the truth and reacting in kind. He will make his own way.

As for him acting like you all make his life so difficult, I am so sorry that you 3 have to endure this treatment. His always being "put out" and "woe is me" attitude. It is HIM that makes his and your life more difficult. Impairing impossible rules, setting his schedule as more important and opposing yours, on and on.

I lived for decades feeling like I was a disappointment to my H - the man who loved me SO MUCH. That still stings. I hope you know that you are such a great person - you could never be a disappointment to any right thinking person!

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
Awww thanks for the encouragement, Ladies! It felt good to stand up for myself. Tonight I wasnt so successful, but I at least tried to stand up for myself. I am trying to tell myself that I am worthwhile and not the big knucklehead that he makes me feel like sometimes. It is getting less and less difficult to be kind to myself. I am learning to be my own champion.

I would love it if one day we gals could finally meet IRL....When we have made decisions and are happy, that would be awesome.

In the meantime for my memory, another incident:
Ugh! So this evening I left some bowls with the Instant Pot turned upside down on top of them on the stovrtop to dry as I had no room in the drainboard. Then later I turned on the pot on the front burner to cook my daughter's squash. Uocpdh comes up and moves the instant pot lid and brings it up to my attention. I tried to not JADE, but found myself doing so. He then said to me,"well you yourself have said that you are not that observant." I told him that I think I am doing okay, and he said, "you are saying you are average at the important things." I said no. He said "thats what you just said." I told him I felt I was fine at noticing the important things, that if my daughter ran out the door and I had food on the stove, I'd run out after her. He said he "would hope so." I tried to ignore and attend to my daughter when he said, "we are not rich, you know." I told him it was a freakin instant pot. Like they should be able to handle heat. He put the lid against my skin to show that it was warm. It was warm, not hot, and had only been warm because it touched or was near the hot pot and still did not get hot after fifteen minutes of contact. He then started in about "how high does the flame have to be" for me to be concerned about the pot? Or about how high before it is a problem? I was finally done, and I brusquely opened the door when my daughter called from the bathroom. I heard dh go "wow!" Like I was some crazy person who had issues. He was calm the whole time while I raised my voice at one point because I am fresh outta patience for crazy and parenting by my husband. Sigh! Normally I dont go off, but he is always hovering when I cook


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:24 pm
Posts: 980
Location: Texas
No wonder you lost your temper. You were being treated like a child. No, I would never treat a child that badly.
If this is the kind of treatment you get, I understand why you JADE. You want him to understand that you have things under control. You think if you could just explain it in some way he could understand, then he would relax and trust your judgement.
His brain just doesn't work that way. It may never work that way.
I was reading something the other day about boundaries and it said that some people will continue to cross the boundaries you set. Some people will ignore your boundaries. Some people will stomp on your boundaries over and over again. These are the people you do not want in your life.
If you are like me, you just recently learned what boundaries are and why we need them. I suggest you keep setting those boundaries and pay attention to who continues to violate them. You will know which people disrespect your boundaries. They are making your life more difficult if you have to keep setting the same boundary over and over.
I let my H violate my boundaries for so long, he felt entitled to comment on every little thing I did. This led me to to be angry at him and stuff that feeling down for years. I was being parented by my husband like you are.
I wish I had realized what was happening to me sooner. I was isolated and I thought this was caring behavior even though it did not feel caring.
That touching you with the lid was bad IMHO. What if it had been hot? I assume he was holding it by the handle so he did not know if it was hot enough to burn you. It makes me shudder to think of him doing something like this to E in a few years.
I am glad you are going to continue to journal here. I hope you can get some advice from others too.
((HUGS))

-Lily

_________________
If you want to fly...you have to give up the stuff that weighs you down.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
I appreciate your comments, Lily. I agree, time will tell. Right now, my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to "safety." With the lid, I believe he touched it first to check the heat before putting it against my arm. Butbyeah, he was having to prove his point (even though it didn't. I mean if you put a plate on the stove while the oven is one, you will feel heet on the plate. But then I guess that would be dangerous too."

Yeah, it sucks that my husband sees me as a bumbling, ditzoid fool, and I let people my whole life make me feel that way. Well no more!

Meanwhile this am just noticed another thing. I put M's shorts on and checked how her shirt was sitting because it bunches in the back sometimes. I made sure her shorts were seated right and shirt outand then sent her to dad to take to school. I think he saw me adjusting her clothes (not 100%sure about that) and said, "can I fix your shirt?" Apparently something in the front wasnt right, then he started adjusting the waistband of the shorts, checking how her undies were situated underneath. Then he softly said something about her undies being bundled up and not being able to say so. (Because she is non verbal.) I don't know if he is just talking to himself, telling her so she understands, or if he is letting me know that I need to pay more attention to this without saying so. Again it is me not being attentive enough and so irritating.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 2315
Undermining BS from an insecure ***...IMO
Making you feel bad makes him feel better.

I just finished reading "Year of Yes" by Shonda Rimes. She had a friend who mumbled crappy comments a lot. Shonda called her on it - once. She just asked what she meant by her comment. Whatbshe got was a profuse apology and a change in behavior. The friend really didn't know she was behaving as such a 'Negative Nellie'. I wonder what your H's response would be. My guess is he would redirect blame to you.

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
[quote="RikkiTikki"]Undermining BS from an insecure ***...IMO
Making you feel bad makes him feel better.

I just finished reading "Year of Yes" by Shonda Rimes. She had a friend who mumbled crappy comments a lot. Shonda called her on it - once. She just asked what she meant by her comment. Whatbshe got was a profuse apology and a change in behavior. The friend really didn't know she was behaving as such a 'Negative Nellie'. I wonder what your H's response would be. My guess is he would redirect blame to you.



Probably.......or tell me how important it is to check these things since she can't speak. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm
Posts: 2683
jujumonkey wrote:
Awww thanks for the encouragement, Ladies! It felt good to stand up for myself. Tonight I wasnt so successful, but I at least tried to stand up for myself. I am trying to tell myself that I am worthwhile and not the big knucklehead that he makes me feel like sometimes. It is getting less and less difficult to be kind to myself. I am learning to be my own champion.

I would love it if one day we gals could finally meet IRL....When we have made decisions and are happy, that would be awesome.

In the meantime for my memory, another incident:
Ugh! So this evening I left some bowls with the Instant Pot turned upside down on top of them on the stovrtop to dry as I had no room in the drainboard. Then later I turned on the pot on the front burner to cook my daughter's squash. Uocpdh comes up and moves the instant pot lid and brings it up to my attention. I tried to not JADE, but found myself doing so. He then said to me,"well you yourself have said that you are not that observant." I told him that I think I am doing okay, and he said, "you are saying you are average at the important things." I said no. He said "thats what you just said." I told him I felt I was fine at noticing the important things, that if my daughter ran out the door and I had food on the stove, I'd run out after her. He said he "would hope so." I tried to ignore and attend to my daughter when he said, "we are not rich, you know." I told him it was a freakin instant pot. Like they should be able to handle heat. He put the lid against my skin to show that it was warm. It was warm, not hot, and had only been warm because it touched or was near the hot pot and still did not get hot after fifteen minutes of contact. He then started in about "how high does the flame have to be" for me to be concerned about the pot? Or about how high before it is a problem? I was finally done, and I brusquely opened the door when my daughter called from the bathroom. I heard dh go "wow!" Like I was some crazy person who had issues. He was calm the whole time while I raised my voice at one point because I am fresh outta patience for crazy and parenting by my husband. Sigh! Normally I dont go off, but he is always hovering when I cook



Ah just in case this is helpful to others, I got this breakdown from a FB (narc support group) post:

he wants you to think your not observant, wasteful etc. He is changing your view of yourself, so you will doubt yourself, it paves the way for more subtle put downs. It is not the truth. It is gas lighting.


He even wanted you to rethink the temperature of the pot! Please believe in yourself. Don't fall for the crazy making


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:24 pm
Posts: 980
Location: Texas
I agree, he is trying to change your view of yourself; getting you to doubt your ability to cook. :o
No more, Mr. UOCPD, you have no special power here because Juju sees what you are doing. She does not approve and she is not falling for it anymore. You will not be able to make her crazy. She gets it now.
If he is anything like my H, he will blame your changing on all that stuff you've been reading. He would be right. :)

-Lily

_________________
If you want to fly...you have to give up the stuff that weighs you down.


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 Post subject: Re: Juju's Chronicle....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 2315
Lily,

You are on fire today, girlfriend! I am cracking up at your wit!

_________________
RikkiTikki, 23 yrs married. July 2014 aware of OCPD, Sept 2016 divorced
XH=non-diag OCPD (Narc?) DS=21, DD=18
RL - Rekindled Love, BF from 20's Back in life

The beginning: rt-lift-off-rikkitikki-s-chronicle-t5072-2775.html


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