Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

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 Post subject: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:53 am
Posts: 238
Who is responsible for this blog or whatever? I find myself disagreeing with a lot of it. One part in particular, it says people with OCPD have a gift of empathy. Are you shitting me?


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Posts: 78
I'm not sure whether you're misunderstanding some posts, or if you're reading posts I've not seen. I don't think many people on here would say that people with OCPD are empathetic. Quite the opposite. They often can't see any one elses point of view, nor do they have a lot of sympathy for the misfortune or unhappiness of others. They often believe people deserve whatever happens to them. If they thought others couldn't control what happens to them, then the OCPD would have to face that they too can't control every thing that happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:22 am 
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Posts: 45
Wow, I am glad that someone else noticed this. I read the Empathy part and got very confused.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Posts: 761
Much of the "giftie" idea in the blog looks more like OCPD circular argument/warped thinking. The blogger does give good insight at times about the OCPD experience, but often it is by example. This is like Mensa who demonstrated a rant for us all. Something I need not much more insight on.

A recent post. See bold comment: Not saying I don't have my difficlties, and not saying there have not been periods of sheer hell. Other than that I am experiencing a good marriage. It is not and is not like anything I had expected. It has many good points, and I have become someone unexpected in the growth/survival process. I always say, if you are married there is a way to go forward. If you are not, I don't recommend it as a life path. My best success has been in an almost entirely non-combative method, full of acceptance of the OCPD. It is a disorder. It is not a gift as some would like to say (anymore than cancer is a gift because we learn to love deeply and suffer pain admirably. The OCPD mind does NOT function like an non-ocpd mind and 90% of our problem is absolute unwillingness to accept that truth. The other 10% of the problem is that OCPD is a pain in the arse. You cannot enter and prosper in an OCPD relationship with the same set of values and attitudes that you had when you entered. You must be the one who does all the changing. If and when your OCPDpartner makes changes, that is the gift.

Disclaimer: my opinion only. not intended reading for those who find offense in anything i write. only joking if perception as a joke makes this more palatable. all percentages are estimates only. not intened to portray actual people.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: SoCal - 5 yrs moved out/4 1/2 yrs broken up w/6 year live-in with OCPD b-f.
The Gift of OCPD is a blog by a member here who has OCPD, expressing his viewpoint. He is often very insightful, though there are many times I disagree with his point of view.

IMO, the contributions here and elsewhere by those who have this disorder can be very enlightening. Let's try not to go too harsh on them, mm'kay?

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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
hi MarriedtoOne,
As LTOM says, a personal blog is just that - personal experience & opinion. Here's my take, based on some recent tools I've learned that have helped me:

The statement, OCPD is a gift, is an attitude that the blogger has chosen. Dr David Burns, in The Feeling Good Handbook, describes attitudes: they are neither true nor false, they have consequences, and we can choose an attitude that has consequences that work for us (though, changing an attitude takes motivation, diligence and perseverance.)

Each one of us here, ocpd'r and non, has an attitude about OCPD - and every one of those attitudes is neither true nor false, each one has consequences, and each is something we can choose, whether we choose to maintain or change it.

I've often found myself in this one: "OCPD is a curse." Its consequences boil down to depression, despondency and despair. Consequences that do me & the people around me no good, but that I fall into.

I try to go with something like, "My brain operates a certain way and I can accept that and learn as much as I can about it in order to get better results." Another attitude, also neither true nor false, and one with consequences that tend to work better for me. In reality, I tend to vacillate between that one and the curse.

Another attitude I find I fall into: OCPD has ruined (or narrowed, or curtailed, or other various negatives) my life. Has it? That implies my life was supposed to be a certain way, that it should've been a certain way and/or that it should not have been a certain way. "Should's" are cognitive distortions. How about, OCPD has made my life difficult and caused pain. I can learn to be better aware of these destructive patterns and learn acceptance and new patterns.

I could go with "I shouldn't have OCPD, it's not fair." But I do have it, and any attitude toward that doesn't change that I have it. It just changes what I do and how I act and how I feel, and as result, how I treat others around me.

So if "OCPD is a gift" works for him more power to him. If it doesn't work for you, fine. It's on us to find one that has consequences that work for us.

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People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Posts: 580
gitterdone88 wrote:
Much of the "giftie" idea in the blog looks more like OCPD circular argument/warped thinking. The blogger does give good insight at times about the OCPD experience, but often it is by example. This is like Mensa who demonstrated a rant for us all. Something I need not much more insight on.



Maybe if you would stop the negative characterizations you might find some insights you didn't expect.

I wonder if it's useful to use a forum member's post or blog as an object lesson in cognitive distortions, like they are not "in the room". While you are entitled to your personal assessments I don't think you speak for all. The OP who Mensa responded to which you saw as ranting was found useful by the non. I wonder if you found the content more troublesome than the "rant".

The OP non you are referring to had a much harsher treatment by several nons, one of whom she addressed on the thread. It was interesting to me that the only apology offered was from an OCPDer, who she assured had not offended her. Apologies were not forthcoming from the nons.

How open are you to any new informatiom from aware OCPDers if it doesn't agree with your paradigm?
Sounds rather rigid. Your response provides insights to some of us here too, as much by your tone and incivility as your content, something I don't need much more of either.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:56 am 
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Posts: 112
Hello everyone! I am the writer of "the Gift of OCPD." Glad you took notice of the blog :)

the article "MarriedtoOne" is referring to is: http://giftofocpd.com/2013/02/19/empathy/
"MarriedtoOne" failed to mention that I actually provide an explanation for why people with OCPD do not practice their gift for empathy when in fact they have it inside of them.

Most of my writing is all about what is happening inside the mind of an OCPDer when he/she does whatever he/she does (or does not do... like empathy). I guess those who strongly disagree somehow know what exactly what is happening in my mind better than I do :shock:

I encourage you all to check the blog out! In one year's time, I have gotten many personal e-mails about how it has saved people's lives and marriages. The blog now receives 800+ daily views, appears as the very 2nd search result for "OCPD" on google.com (after wikipedia), and i'm pretty sure it's now the number 1 online self-help resource for OCPD and nons. Even a university psychology professor who teaches diagnosis assessment shares the blog to his students. and so on...

perhaps... just maybe... these things demonstrate that what I write about might be more than just personal "viewpoints" and "opinions"... perhaps there really is some truth to what I say...

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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:27 pm
Posts: 112
For all of you who think you understand OCPD so accurately, I encourage you to also start a blog. Let's see how far you get ;)

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http://giftofocpd.com


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 979
Well, there is a point here. Many non's will say that ocpd'ers have little empathy because they show little empathy. Kid states that ocpd'ers have a lot of empathy and do not show it for _ a cause _, basically the essence of OCPD. The cause takes some effort swallowing, but let us accept it. There still is no answer to the _why_ we non's (partners) we ask: why do you not show empathy to us when we need it? The logical assumption is that it is not there. If it is there, how do you manage not to show it to your partner when (s)he needs it? It is in some sense worse than if it were not there (say, autism).

But I will go with the view that ocpd'ers suffer from a massive input of their senses, with an amazing sense of detail, have difficulty coping with all of that input, fear of being overwhelmed and then learn behavior that helps them cope with it but is largely inappropriate in a relationship with a partner that does not have this problem. Would still be OK if there is some acceptance and communication about it, but not if it is regarded as a vastly superior way of approaching life and that non's are just too stupid to see how the world really works.

I can see that Kid's blog is far more useful for ocpd'ers than ours is and even that it saves relationships better than ours does; in fact we can only help non's who fall victim in convincing them that it is not their fault, in showing sympathy and in setting up boundaries. We have not found the way to make an unaware ocpd'er aware AND change behavior.

We should also not be surprised that ocpd'ers see themselves and the world in a different light, I think we all know that...


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 761
One of the tenents of this forum is that OCPD is in fact a disorder. One that causes a fair amount of pain and suffering for those who have it, and those who are related to someone who does. Taking the metaphysical viewpoint that everything has "good" value is an interesting exercise, slightly outside of the stated context. Pointing to all other sources of pain within relationships too can have value, and is also somewhat outside of this context. The suffering from many dis-eases land direcly on the sufferer. OCPD has a curious element in its design that largely prevents the sufferer from experiencing that they have an illness at all. The issue is maginified in that the sufferer experiences the damanging effects of the disorder as originating in others - who do not have the illness. Aggravating this curious situation is that the true holder of the disorder routinely and consistently blame and target their significant others as the source of the pain it causes. A hallmark of the disorder is the practice of arguing every situtation into an error on the part of the other. This is often accompished through long, circular, distorted verbal constructs. The disorder provides a veritable endless supply of tangled, twisting, argumentation such that one can never get to the bottom of it. The effect is maddening. And, made worse because the disorder lends to its direct victim a sense of superiority and authority in almost all matters. The patient inevitably believes (knows) himself smarter than the doctor. And, made worse because the disorder drives its victim to feel some kind of absolute terror if not the victor in every engagement at all times.

Those who are at the effect of it are here to find relief from it. They have been burned by it daily for years. The first approach many take, and need, is to point the finger in the right direction. "There is the cause of the problems. It is not you." Identifying the nature of the rages, rants, twisted thinking, verbal snarles, raw criticisms, cold manipulations, and rivers of warped justifcations is part of that messy process. It is the first approach. A beginning. A sloppy but needed step to separate the non from the PD fog and confusion. Triage. Much of this forum is that stage in process. How to appreciate the inner struggle of an OCPD sufferer (and they do suffer it), is mostly for the long experienced masters. Those who've clarified the PD in their lives, clarified their own issues, and found a way to live mostly in peace with IT. Even they report it is not a relaxed peace, but one that is carefully and guardedly won each day.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Posts: 238
Didn't think this thread would get so philosophical. Anyway, as far as being "easy" on someone that posts on the internet, well, guess what, when you post for all to see, be prepared to get feedback one doesn't like. It's as if I kept asking all my friends for their opinions and suddenly I start getting opinions I don't like... I'm putting it out there so it's going to eventually happen. Sorry.

On to other things... as far as empathy (and I have heard this several times on here before) what good is it to have something and not use it? If I have a perfectly working arm but I let it dangle on my side and everyone around me has to help me, how is that benefiting anyone? To have something and not use it is useless to say the least. And when it comes to basic human emotions, my statement grows even stronger...especially where empathy is concerned because to have that in a relationship (I believe) is part of the intimacy. I haven't had empathy from my husband during our entire relationship and if it has been there, it hasn't helped because he doesn't show it so WHO CARES?!?!?!??!

I think these "blogs" and even this forum are helpful to those who had NO IDEA WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEIR PARTNER AND RELATIONSHIP. But once the problem is discovered, then there is little help other than the support we can give each other. Let's not get too excited by the "gift" idea. Shall we? Just because my husband can work in finances and do all the details down to the exact penny doesn't make it a gift and in fact, he is about to lose his job in the next few months because of other issues with his personality (that are related to OCPD). Doesn't seem like a gift to me either. I see my husband struggle in different ways because of his OCPD and with that, I have empathy. I see him struggle day to day and sometimes I wonder if *he* thinks there is something off with himself. But every time I try to bring that up, I get slapped down as being an "arm chair psychologist" and that I have diagnosed him blah blah blah... I give up.

It has taken me 6 years not to take what he says to me personally and to know that if I were anyone else, he would be doing the same thing because no matter what personality he has in his life, they will be an "idiot" or "incompetent" or not doing enough etc etc. He sees me as TERRIBLY flawed and sometimes to the point where I have come right out and asked "why are you with me then?" BTW, no answer has ever come from this question. Regardless of not taking anything personal the bottom line is that what I crave and need in my life are not being met. The general feeling of being in a relationship for the past 6 years has not existed for me. My "gift" of a husband has been in his own world the entire time and that will never change. Gosh, if my husband loved me as much as he loves his money, I wouldn't even be writing this!

We can choose to see most things positive that are really negative in nature. I can say that my bout with cancer made me understand the world better or enjoy every moment in life. Do I NEED cancer to make me see that every moment is precious?No. I am one of those people that does believe every min of life is INDEED precious. But I could do without the cancer. Does someone with OCPD need to see it as a gift because they can be successful at certain things. Sure, if you want but at what cost? What cost to those around the OCPD'r? I really believe that the person who is living with the OCPD'r is suffering more than the OCPD'r themselves. I am sure I will cause a shit storm with that statement too.

I have been to more therapists (4 in 6 years) and been on more anti depressants/anti anxiety drugs in 6 years than I have in my entire life. It took me a long time to figure out that a majority of it wasn't me. I do take some responsibility in my reactions to my OCPD husband but I have grown a hard protective shell... one that probably doesn't always come out right at the right times but survival is a necessity at this point. I have come to the conclusion he will never take an ounce of accountability for anything wrong in this relationship and that has been a difficult pill to swallow. It only took me 6 years to get that through my thick skull.

I find myself sad that there are OCPD'rs on this board at all. Not because they are here but they have at least SOME insight as to themselves. I find that interesting with an PD that in of itself does not allow for someone to think there is anything wrong with them at all. Gosh, I even printed out the Cammer test a month ago for my husband and he balked... it's still sitting on his desk. Sad. I guess he MIGHT get it when I serve him with divorce papers or more likely he will be either A. Happy to get rid of me because I won't be spending HIS money. 2. I won't be that incompetent idiot living under his roof causing all sorts of problems and screwing up his world. 3. He will be dumbfounded and respond aggressively by making sure I don't get a PENNY of HIS money regardless of the fact that I have been his stepping stone to bettering his life by getting him citizenship to this country and subsequently an excellent paying job.

A gift indeed! But hey, whatever lets you sleep at night! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Posts: 580
gitterdone88 wrote:
Those who've clarified the PD in their lives, clarified their own issues, and found a way to live mostly in peace with IT. Even they report it is not a relaxed peace, but one that is carefully and guardedly won each day.


I'm not suggesting that people with urgent needs are in critical situations be told there needs are not important, that OCPD is not a disorder with significant relational problems. I'm not asking nons to kiss the rod that inflicts pain or suffering. But as you mentioned Triage, it's role is to assess emergent needs, not to deliver comprehensive diagnosis or treatment. Presenting OCPD as some monolithic incurable disorder ignores the spectrum and severity aspects as well as therapeutically healing approaches. When you move on to detailed etiology you're on rather thin ice. Prognosticating from personal experience or paradigms seems untenable.

I agree, attempting to clarify PD in ones own life need to be carefully guarded. I'm curious as to why you would need to minimize such efforts a warped thinking or examples of OCPD cognitive distortions. What you label as distortion may be a tremendous step forward in other areas of personality development, like overcoming a sense of catastrophic thinking, terro, or despair No one is compelling anyone to accept it as a gift, but suggesting there can be some up side to the disorder seems reasonable. (for example I noticed how the thread about OCPD and professions stopped abruptly when a negative sweeping pronouncement was made)

If you want to consider possible benefits conferred by some diseases you may want to check out Sickle cell and malarial immunity. It's a commonly understood upside to an otherwise distressing disorder.


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:16 pm 
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BTW, I have always found it very telling that an OCPD person can post in the NON section but the NON's can't post in the OCPD section. Just sayin...


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 Post subject: Re: Gift of OCPD!??!?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:35 pm
Posts: 170
MarriedToOne
Again reading in here I have had yet another "AH HA" moment. Exactly as you described one of my phone conversations with my exocpdr ended with me saying "I am just trying to figure out why you are with me when I cannot find anything that you like about me" I also did not get an answer to this question.


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