Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
hopeforbetterdays wrote:
Fava - If you've got an alliance or friendship going out of this forum - good for you. But don't distort reality and lie to yourself
about what is polite and what is unkind. Harsh tone is harsh tone - and it hurts when a tender suffering heart is involved. Feeling
the need to defend harshness is something you should look at in yourself.


Hope, you have every right to disagree with me. But the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm lying to myself. It means that I disagree with you. Neither of us owns the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: SoCal - 5 yrs moved out/4 1/2 yrs broken up w/6 year live-in with OCPD b-f.
hopeforbetterdays wrote:
But don't distort reality and lie to yourself
about what is polite and what is unkind. Harsh tone is harsh tone - and it hurts when a tender suffering heart is involved.
Hope, I get that you're hurting, and I am so sorry. But the reality is, NONE of us has a plate-glass window into anyone else's heart and life on this forum. We are all fellow seekers trying to help one another - and we bring our own baggage with us whenever we offer suggestions or think we have some insight.

Sometimes what we say is spot on, and sometimes it is not even in the ballpark. Sometimes that's because we are suffering partial blindness or prejudice or fleas - and sometimes it is because the original poster may have left out some cogent fact.

And sometimes the kindest way to say something is bluntly, shockingly.

No one wants you to be hurt - no one wants ANYONE here, non or OCPD'r alike, to be hurt. Yet, sometimes, some of the experiences and opinions and discussions WILL hurt. Please, take a deep breath, and know that everyone here is trying, even if sometimes we are not getting it "right." (Whatever that is.)

Hugs and healing to you, and everyone here.

_________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. – Anaïs Nin
Follow the latest Scoop: http://www.scoop.it/t/iso-mental-health-wellness
OCPD SO info: http://perfectlyawfulusa.blogspot.com


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
If you simply quote the sacred or revered standard that she tacitly upholds you won't have to worry about her defense. It's not your standard she is violating. She will have to argue with the source by either diminishing the authority or rationalizing her violation.
Either way it will create internal anxiety and if you don't get baited into helping her reduce it by giving her a "fight" opportunity, it could motivate her to seek some grace and mercy. Once she could experience that her life could dramatically change.

I get a little confused between the two threads. Did you say she thinks you have an 8 year atonement obligation to you?


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
2004 plus 8 = 2012 so by her math you have done the 8 years. What is her basis for maintaining maternal service until you turn 60?
Even prisoners who serve their sentences to term are free to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
------ wrote:
I have to get out of this emotional blackmail trap. it took me years to realize it was a trap. that i need not be guilty. that i was doing my duty willingly, to take her to a stage where she cud survive without me. i feel that time is near now.
You are already sounding stronger and stronger. It's quite a web that has been woven.

If I understand your circumstances correctly, you have a granddaughter that you are concerned about as well.

Just keep telling yourself, you are worthy of having a life that is free of all of this strife. Your situation is very tricky. But if it were me, I would give her ample notice and not plan to financially support her in any way after you move out. She is old enough to either support herself or get help so she can get healthy enough to support herself.

The most difficult thing an adult parent can do is pull back and allow a child (adult or not) to fall/fail. But thru failure, there is also success. It could be the best thing you could ever do for her.

Note to ------- I noticed you posted on the yahoo board too. Hopefully you will get some good responses there too.

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
annoor wrote:
Fingers in the ears implies a willful refusal to listen which is not the same as being unable to hear.
WOW, Annoor, this is profound!

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
I guess what I wonder if what merit do you see in her claim on 8 more years of your life. It sounds a bit lit indentured servitude, something I don't associate with motherhood.

In other words do you believe you owe her 8 more years?


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
------ wrote:
annoor wrote:
2004 plus 8 = 2012 so by her math you have done the 8 years. What is her basis for maintaining maternal service until you turn 60?
Even prisoners who serve their sentences to term are free to go.


basis is 8 yrs of her life were wasted/spoilt/delayed all bcz of me, bcz of something i did, that caused her harm......and though i struggled and suffered with her, that was the penance i paid, i had to, but now 8 yrs of my normal life with her as ok must also be sacrificed before i am free of caring for her, as it wasnt her fault, it was mine....i.e. if she had been ok 2004 to 2012, then she wud have had me around as normal mothers are around, till i turn 60 and want to go my way. Thats still due. So i must be normally around till i turn 68. WoW !!! Her logics can befool and trap, they come like bullets, so fast and sharp.
This is very distorted thinking that is often part of the way OCPDers think. When I saw a counselor to help my husband she said its vital to constantly attempt to untwist his distorted thinking.

In your case, I wouldn't try to get her to understand. But it's important for you to understand how distorted this thinking is.

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 41
more-freedom wrote:
I have NO expectation of getting any emotional support from my husband AT ALL.

I can't even have a conversation about MY day without him being dismissive.

Surround yourself with supportive people (friend, neighbor, mom, sis etc.) and call on them to get your thru a tough time, not your SO.


I totally agree here. You can spend time trying to elicit compassion from him but keep in mind that OCPDers typically don't have high levels of compassion for others. It is one of the most frustrating aspects of the disorder.

-Brooklyn


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
------ wrote:
Brooklyn wrote:
more-freedom wrote:
I have NO expectation of getting any emotional support from my husband AT ALL.

I can't even have a conversation about MY day without him being dismissive.

Surround yourself with supportive people (friend, neighbor, mom, sis etc.) and call on them to get your thru a tough time, not your SO.


I totally agree here. You can spend time trying to elicit compassion from him but keep in mind that OCPDers typically don't have high levels of compassion for others. It is one of the most frustrating aspects of the disorder.
-Brooklyn

Ofcourse...never ever make the mistake of expecting compassion or empathy or even understanding your point of view and feelings from them....you will be hurt and frustrated and disappointed
And I have found this to be far more true of my daughter than my husband. The relationship is a different dynamic.

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:49 pm
Posts: 16
realitycheque wrote:
Keep in mind that many introverts are prone to having blank stares, especially Thinker (non-Feeler) types who don't relate well to emotions, even we Nons.

As More-Freedom said, if you lower your expectations, you'll be less disappointed. My OCPD DW (an Extroverted Feeler) provides nil in the way of emotional support, and she quickly turns any such (very rare) seeking that I have into how she feels (i.e., worse than I feel). That's when I call a sister for support.


My OCPD girlfriend also happens to be an INTJ.. I think my ENFP expression of feelings and emotions freely bothers her a LOT..


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:49 pm
Posts: 16
realitycheque wrote:
mushroom wrote:
realitycheque wrote:
As More-Freedom said, if you lower your expectations, you'll be less disappointed.
I'm sorry but it's quite sad to have no expectations whatsoever for ANY emotional support from your husband. Keep in mind that the issue is not your expectations. The problem is not your emotional needs. Your needs are perfectly reasonable - what is sadly unreasonable is to expect consistent emotional support of any kind from someone with OCPD (especially when you are in a time of great need). The fact that you have emotional needs for support from your partner is natural and normal. You will not be able to erase them, so please don't try. Why would you deny your needs?
Fortunately, this was not at all what was suggested. Nons have practically no control over the difficulty that OCPDers have with empathy (emotional and/or intellectual), but we can regulate our dispiriting reactions to this by managing our expectations more effectively. As CBT techniques teach us, it is moving in degrees from a worse place to a better place. It's emerging from the FOG. It's looking from a position of entrenchment (our unreasonable expectations of the OCPDer) to re-grouping in a more advantageous location. It's not about denying/erasing your needs, it's about accepting the reality and determining more objectively how they can be met.

Oh my god that is funny...
Sounds just like her.. the OCPD. INTJ woman that I love
mushroom wrote:
I mean, from the way he acts he could be thinking anything from "Please go away so I can get back to my book" to "That's terrible news!" Last night I was exhausted and telling him (briefly, I know he doesn't like long stories) about the latest little mess and got nothing from him except a frowny face. How do I do this?
realitycheque wrote:
Keep in mind that many introverts are prone to having blank stares, especially Thinker (non-Feeler) types who don't relate well to emotions, even we Nons.
mushroom wrote:
The behavior your describing is very damaging; very negating, and very demoralizing. Don't go along with it. Also (edit) do not tell yourself that it's because he's an introvert. This is not an issue of introversion -- neither yours nor his.
Again, not at all what was suggested. It's understanding that we cannot know what the other person is thinking merely by their facial expression. What from this thread are you saying is damaging/negating/demoralizing that shouldn't go along with? We're talking about a blank stare which for us introverted thinkers is a bit of a default expression when processing complex (i.e., unplanned for OCPDers) news/information. It would be difficult (though not impossible) to "train" an OCPDer to feign an appropriate face. A furrowed brow? A hopeful smile? A quizzical look to the ceiling while stroking his imaginary goatee or Vulcan ears muttering "hmmm, vely intelesting" or "fascinating", respectively?

The concept I'm wanting to bring out, hopefully with humor, is that we Nons too can get caught up in the FOGgy Shoulds, Mind-Reading, and Emotional Reasoning. I know that I did, but once I emerged from FOG, partially by understanding the underlying personality types of me and DW, I obtained a much better handle on what I was willing and able to live with (or have augmented from others like friends/siblings) and what I am not. I agree with many (if not all) of the principles you're bringing out, and am offering my experience as insights that might help reactions to the Blank Stare (or the more emotionally triggering "Cold-Hearted and Calculating" descriptor). We INTJs are known for having the "Death Stare" which can mean anything from "Eat $#%+ and Die!" to "Are there any instances in real life where I've used the square root of minus one? Hey, I could I change the lyrics of Atlanta Rhythm Section's "Imaginary Lover" to "Imaginary Number" to help DS remember the algebraic rules for his test!" And, yes, I have done both using basically the same facial expression. DW used to speculate (negatively) on such looks, but we are communicating more openly now to avoid misconceptions.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:49 pm
Posts: 16
more-freedom wrote:
I often get the "don't interrupt" spoken with indignation from DH. I constantly say, you stopped talking, I thought you were done.

AND when he interrupts me, WHICH HE DOES, I call him on it every single time.




OMG.. she blows up if I interrupt her... But she sometimes does the same.. I'll have to remember to mention it to her.
She is getting better at COMMUNICATING and actually talking about what bothers her.. SHE says.. for the first time in her life...


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:45 am
Posts: 28
My OCPDH has often appeared unengaged in things that we are supposed to be discussing together. For example, when planning a trip, I have to come up with the idea. If I don't, we would never go anywhere. Yet, I want him to be involved in choosing the destination and activities, travel mode etc. He listens but there is often little response. After complaining about this for many years, he now tries to respond but the questions or comments sound like he's reading from a script. The conversations tend to be really short and if I don't bring it up again at a later date, he never enquires. No need for updates, no expression of excitement. This kind of behavior is fairly common about almost anything that we might consider doing that is new or different. He is so routine oriented that frankly, I think he would be content (prefer) each day to be a carbon copy of the day before. His mom (also OCPD) is even worse. She never deviates from her daily routine. When the trip actually transpires, DH usually has spent plenty of time in the few days leading up to the trip organizing his things, packing his list of non negotiable items (his guitar, toilet paper etc) so that his needs have been met which comforts him. Then I tell him what's on the agenda and he follows me around throughout. When all is said and done, he usually has a pretty good time as long as we can avoid doing things that don't invade his comfort zone too much.

He also has a knack for checking out when he is part of a group conversation that revolves around a topic that he's not very interested in. We can be sitting at the table eating, in close proximity, carrying on a lively conversation and all the while he's GONE. I have often questioned whether or not he has aspergers syndrome because his preferences and interests are so bloody focused and narrow. Maybe he's on the spectrum for both.


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