Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
I often get the "don't interrupt" spoken with indignation from DH. I constantly say, you stopped talking, I thought you were done.

AND when he interrupts me, WHICH HE DOES, I call him on it every single time.

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Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
It's called a double standard.

NOW, I call him on it every single time he does it. And lately, he tells me when it's a double standard and he starts to laugh.

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
meenam wrote:
annoor wrote:
You actually might be surprised what is going on inside, perhaps far more than you suspect. Fingers in the ears implies a willful refusal to listen which is not the same as being unable to hear. The same could apply to a blank stare.


Thats exactly what my daughter does to me....she says(rather shouts) what she has to, and on n on, and when i try n say something, its lalalala with fingers in her ears.



At the risk of looking to defend bad communication or behavior, the point of the "stream of consciousness/download" isn't about an exchange of information or dialogue, it's about bailing water out of the lifeboat. OCPD is an anxiety disorder. When it reaches critical internal levels it has to be externalized or the life raft will sink. At this point I don't think you are going to have an healthy exhange of ideas/information. It's not a rationally based communication, it's a anxiety reduction externalized and projected.

The exchanges that MoreF. is mentioning sound like periodic bailing exercises, preemptive anxiety reduction. The double standard applies to the rules of dialogue. There are two vastly different ways of communicating.

In a way it's like someone learning sign language to communicate with a deaf person. It's learning "anxiety speak". My mother was fluent in it after nearly 60 years with my OCPD dad. Granted it's not an easy language to learn. As mushroom pointed out it can put you at risk personally.

It reminds me of a lady I knew who was born to an american missionary doctor in China. She spent almost 40 years on the mainland and 30 more on Taiwan. In her 90's she broke a hip was in a nursing home. The staff reported she was "delirious and babbling". When a former colleague visited who was fluent in Mandarin, she found she wasn't babbling, she was quoting the Psalms in flawless Chinese.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
I can follow your narration. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

If you choose to live near a volcano (or let a volcano live with you) it might be worth getting a seismograph or at least pay attention to tremor, learn all you can about volcanism. If you don't think you can do that then you might want her to move out.

Either way you may have to accept her limitations and the grief that the loss of a "normal and natural" relationship.

I'm curious, do you or your daughter have a faith perspective?


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
Facing the worst in me was the beginning of awareness. My egosyntonic frame of mind began to erode. Interestingly it did not come from conflict in relationships, it came from and increasing internal conflict of my own moral code. For me OCPD="my worst". In theological terms it's called "conviction of sin". What I came to desperately need was a remedy.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am
Posts: 4874
Is it possible for you to do one of the following -
1. Tell her when things are calm that she may not realize it but she takes a long time to say something. And you need the short version.

2. When my husband does that (particularly when we are with friends), I point out that he needs to get to the point.

3. Is it possible to record her and send her the audio in an email? There are digital recorders now.

Perhaps others will have suggestions too.

_________________
Married 10+ years
Diagnosed 18 years ago
Fairly good marriage


“ When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time."
― Maya Angelou


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 1978
I think more has made good suggestions. Making changes like this is really hard, especially in a dynamic that's been the same for a long time. As I often say when I describe the changes SO & I have been through, it isn't pretty.

So what if she gets furious when you interrupt - listening to her doesn't seem to make her any happier. You can't please an OCPD'r in this manner because nothing is ever going to be right. It took me a long time to recognize this, even after knowing about OCPD. That my brain was always going to be telling me that things weren't right. So - no matter what you do, whether it is try to please her, or make changes in an attempt to help yourself and her - she is going to be upset. It's more unsettling to change behavior than it is to keep on doing the same thing, so we often go with what's comfortable for us, which can be understandable. The misery we're familiar with is more palatable than some potential unknown.

Maybe you could also give her a specific time limit in which she can converse with you. When that time is up, stick to it and end the conversation. She will not be happy, but remind yourself, there is no way you can please her.

Also, take it easy on yourself here. It's excruciatingly difficult to initiate change in a relationship dynamic, especially one so ingrained as a mother-daughter relationship. She will likely feel resentful and fearful, as you will be shifting the ground under her feet. So take it slow and be understanding with yourself as well.

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People do not change when they see the light. They change when they feel the heat.  ― Freda Lewis-Hall


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm
Posts: 580
Or you could tell her that she will give an account before God for every word she utters and attitude she expresses, including her rants at you, which might also violate many social and religious commands about respecting her parents.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 29
More Freedom: You think you're so straight up and tell it like it is tough. You are both laughable and disturbing to encounter.
Can I just TELL you that you have basically DRIVEN me away from this support group with your nasty snide tone and
careless attitude? Don't you dare ever vent your frustrations in a supposedly 'constructive' reply to one of my posts
ever again. When I'm vulnerable and hurting the last thing I need is to log in and see your thinly veiled nastiness as a reply to
something I've posted. The loss of mushroom here is a shame and your ideas are crap compared to the enlightened intelligent
amazingly CAREFUL constructions she has posted all over this forum. Spare me. You have a LOT to learn and will likely never learn
any of it. You make me sick.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
I'm guessing that this thread will get some editing, but until it does I wanted to post to say that More-Freedom has always made good, thoughtful suggestions on this thread, and many others. Mushroom has also been valuable, and I hope she comes back, but that choice, one way or another, is not More-Freedom's responsibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 29
Being nasty to others on this forum drives people away - more freedom is doing that.
Edit all you want. I'm speaking the truth. And soon I will be gone too. Silence the people
who speak their minds with editing. Shame shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 29
Check MY thread to see more freedom's latest response to a painful time I've been going through.
I politely and kindly asked her to be more gentle in her approach. Judging from her last message here
to mushroom, she has not done that. Shame shame SHAME.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Pacific Northwest
Francie wrote:
It's more unsettling to change behavior than it is to keep on doing the same thing, so we often go with what's comfortable for us, which can be understandable. The misery we're familiar with is more palatable than some potential unknown.


This is really valid, especially for me. If it's comfortable, it's easier to keep doing it, even if it is miserable, rather than do something new, which I have no clue how it will turn out in the long run. It's partially why (going back now to the blank staring) I don't work on it very consciously. I still have this "dark glare" (my family's description of it) that I give when I'm focusing on something, even though I'm not mad. It's just, there's too much effort involved in trying to put on a pleasant face, and I don't know how successful I am at attempting it, so I just stick with my somewhat successfully mask 'glare', since it's 'comfortable' per say, as in, I'm used to it. Though, I am trying again to at least get to a neutral expression so I don't look angry at people when I'm not.

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"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six." - Lev Tolstoy


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:05 am 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 2623
I'm not a moderator. I won't be editing anything; my remark was a prediction.

I saw that thread, and I saw More-Freedom being direct but kind in both that thread and this. I think that you are misunderstanding what she's saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting past the blank stare
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 29
Fava - If you've got an alliance or friendship going out of this forum - good for you. But don't distort reality and lie to yourself
about what is polite and what is unkind. Harsh tone is harsh tone - and it hurts when a tender suffering heart is involved. Feeling
the need to defend harshness is something you should look at in yourself.


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