Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group

A support group for those with OCPD and their loved ones.
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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
This post ends up getting a little ranty.

My husband and I had a conversation yesterday. We had lunch together and then talked again in the evening. He told me I was dancing around something and he wanted to know what it was.

I reminded him of last week in therapy how I had read that page and said if he wanted to know, I thought I knew why we had such trouble understanding each other. And he could ask me whenever what it was or never. And I had finished reading the page and he had been looking at me like he was angry so I thought I'd had my answer. He insisted he couldn't remember me saying any of that stuff. So I thought, I'm going to tell him. He wants to know what I'm dancing around.

I go get the second sheet of paper that has all the positive qualities that described him (like normal people need classes to learn things, but he learns just by playing with something until he figures it out). I told him I had come across this list when I had searched on perfectionism and he told me he wasn't a perfectionist. I reminded him of when he told me that he was worried his code review would say that he should have been able to write his code in less time, but that he had deleted and re-written parts multiple times. He insisted that was normal (to some extent re-writing, especially if something doesn't work as intended, can be normal) and I didn't want to start going through every single instance of things that were indicative of perfectionism in his life only for him to bat each one down individually and then insist because he had knocked each of them down that he wasn't a perfectionist.

He talked dismissively of my tendency to read things on the internet and let them influence me.

At some point I brought up a day a couple weeks ago where he stayed home from work. I had come home and he had told me that he had spent the whole day criticizing himself and feeling low. That he'd been working on his resume. But yesterday he told me that he hadn't been working on his resume. It is possible that for someone reason I have this memory wrong. But the other one with the page I read him had a witness and I had what I read in writing and he couldn't remember it. And some work related lies.

We talked about before he started working around the clock and he insisted that he had been busy then, where I was only giving him credit for planning things in his head. And also blamed circumstances for not getting stuff done. Our daughter's birthday party, people visiting (he forgot the trip to visit my grandmother). He was talking about all the stuff we still hadn't unpacked and I pointed out to him that *ALL* my stuff is unpacked. I unpacked in the first week or two after moving in. He said he had more stuff than me.

He complained that our move had been too hasty. That he hadn't had time to properly clean the house before we moved in. He owns a steamer device. He hadn't had time to steam the floors. He complained about the refrigerator and how necessary it had been to clean it because it had once held meat (he's vegan). I told him that I had cleaned it. I remembered cleaning it pretty thoroughly. He told me he'd had to clean out a yogurt stain afterwards...I don't know. I remember cleaning it really thoroughly.

We talked about when we had moved in together and how I always left the kitchen messy. That I'd miss stuff, a stain of something on the counter, or not put away the pots, and that every time he'd confronted me about it I'd get angry at him and tell him to stop nagging me. He said he had left things there for days to see if I'd eventually clean it. I told him he never said anything positive to me when I did clean up enough. That he didn't give me any positive reinforcement for doing things partially right. He told me cleaning up was part of being an adult.

But the point of that part of the conversation (bits are getting scrambled, I'm not taking my adderall until I get my sleep normal again) was that he had accepted me as I was and stopped getting on me to clean the kitchen to his standards. (implied, I should be capable of doing the same with him, live and let live. But when he doesn't put the baby gate up, call the plumber, baby proof the cabinets, then *I* do it. While he's on huffpo, facebook, or whatever).

Something I'll add about the kitchen cleaning. In my family and it seems many families, the person who cooks is not the person who cleans. But he believed that the person who cooks should be the person who cleans for reasons of UNASSAILABLE LOGIC and the rest of us were doing it wrong.

I'm going to see the marriage counselor today for an individual because I've been unable to express myself to my husband. Like above when I realized he was going to one by one shut down any evidence that he was a perfectionist, I simply don't/can't talk to my husband about this and I have serious doubts that I want to stay in this marriage if we're going to go cycles where he devotes all his attention to work and then all his attention to appeasing me.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


Last edited by thenightisover on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
And one more ranty thing.

I had asked him if he wanted to go out for lunch yesterday. He said yes and indicated around noonish he'd want lunch.

Around 1030 I suggested we leave earlier. He was done with his coffee and just reading stuff on the internet. He went to get ready. To shave, brush his teeth, put on clothes (and god knows what else) he took 50 minutes. This is without a shower, without eating breakfast. He complains constantly about not having enough time but I can see where his time is spent. We left the house about an hour later for the noonish lunch. If I hadn't come and suggested we eat earlier, who knows when we would have actually left.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


Last edited by thenightisover on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
More ranty

I thanked him for trying. From my perspective believing he has OCPD, the two small signs I recognized from him this week (dropping a kiss on my neck without prompting) and saying he would seen an ENT to discuss his sleep issues, change is difficult for a PD.

But he told me he wasn't trying.

And that shook me.

He has convinced himself that right now all the stuff he's doing around the house is because he suddenly has time (not because I'm unhappy). That the fact that he wants to start exercising again is because he wants it (not because I'm unhappy). And the things that I saw as signs of effort....if he's actually not trying then the single kiss on the cheek (and a couple other instances of unprompted affection) was solely in response to all the effort I've put out over the course of therapy being affectionate, loving, cuddling, verbally telling him he's handsome/attractive, that I love him, being (as I've been for awhile) pro-active about looking for solutions to problems, looking for ways to compromise, mea culpa's when I am wrong. The agreeing to see an ENT in two months was something I pressured out of him when he wouldn't actively commit to a date.

When I look at all the effort I put in and all the effort he's not putting in because he thinks he's in the right, it is really demoralizing. I don't think this is something I can un-see and make myself happy for the rest of our lives together. I should be working. But I tried to write out what marriage would look like being happy with him. It is basically farming everything out so he can sit on his *** and endlessly plan his perfect projects. We already have a maid and people who take care of our landscaping. He wants to hire people to do our shopping and cooking. And we're going to lapse into him not helping with any of the home maintenance and improvements as soon as he thinks his crisis with me has been averted.

At least, he's said he wants to hire someone to do his chores. But last night he was saying that he didn't think he could find someone to wash the fruit he buys.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Posts: 41
Did an individual session with marriage counselor so I could finally say the things that I can't tell my husband.

Our marriage counselor is pretty old school. He's never heard of OCPD. He recommended a book on ADD to me. God I hope my husband has ADD. It seems like that would be easier to treat.

He counseled me to eat green, leafy vegetables (he saw in on Dr Oz), go do some meditation (self care, to deal with my depression/anxiety), and read a book he recommended on ADD and see if I thought it described my husband. This therapist has my husband's trust. I'm not going therapist shopping. If that's the death of our marriage, so be it. The MC was willing to read Too Perfect so that's about as much as I can do.

I think I might become addicted to therapy. I felt light again after being able to say what was on my mind. I suppose once I'm no longer suffering from depression/anxiety I won't get the feeling of lightness after sessions and that should end the possibility of becoming addicted.

I've read a book on ADHD before. I have it. I have read a book on OCPD. I'll read the book he's recommending and see which one matches my husband better.

I'll find out what the consequences are of breaking a lease before I move in. I can start planning out my separation now and if things magically turn better then cancel. Otherwise I'll keep working on things. I think in my upcoming session with my individual therapist, I want to explore the space of what happy married life to my husband looks like. Can I be more flexible and see how much of his quirks I can accept. How can I mitigate my problems with him.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:26 pm
Posts: 939
Location: Southeast US
During MC the counselor was ready to pronounce my spouse as ADD until I pointed out a couple of small differences between type 3 ADD (over-focused per Dr Daniel Amen) and OCPD. Can't recall what they were but they were significant enough that the counselor agreed that I was dealing with OCPD. She was not familiar with it and at a later time I gave her a spare copy of "Too Perfect".

In case you haven't heard of the book, it was "Six types of ADD", since upgraded to seven types.

Your counselor may be more familiar with the description as "**** Retentive".


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Posts: 41
Go impatient ADHD brain! :|

Contacted an apartment that I want to live in to check availability on the floorplan that interests me.

Maybe we'll try therapy for a little while longer once we're separated.

I met with my IC today. I'll keep meeting with him as well for a while. Until I know I've got this depression/anxiety thing good and kicked. Maybe even longer to sort out whatever issues I might still have. Still taking the trazodone to help with the depression/anxiety/insomnia. Talked about values and character and the (unhappy) marriage my parents have and I don't have the patience and compassion of my dad to stay with someone who is functioning badly. I'm not holding my breath that my husband will recognize his individual issues. Regardless, I think he'll be a great co-parent.

Actually, not entirely sure. He originally stopped being critical of my kitchen cleaning years ago (not to his standards) because I was about ready to high tail it out of there. Maybe down the line I'll have to counteract him being critical to her but that is not something I want to worry about now. All I can do is to try and model a happy, strong, functioning woman for her.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


Last edited by thenightisover on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Posts: 41
Thanks unixstuff.

I found this about type 3 ADHD:
http://www.amenclinics.com/blog/know-th ... cused-add/

I would say that my husband has
- no trouble shifting attention
- and he's very attentive. There are ZERO inattention problems with my husband.

And from this quiz
http://addfull.amenclinics.com/questions
- he does not lose things
- he does not make mistakes or forget details
- he is not hyperactive
Long quiz, stopped marking them. It says he has
overfocused ADD and limbic ADD

I wonder if this might be a fruitful avenue to take with my husband. I have an ADHD diagnosis. Maybe he'll find it less threatening if I suggest that he has ADHD and if that doesn't work out/improve his behavior, eventually approach the idea of OCPD. Except...I don't want to stick around for it. If he's going to get diagnosed, I want him to see a specialist who knows what OCPD is as well. Our current guy doesn't know what OCPD is and won't be able to help.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Posts: 41
I signed a lease application Saturday morning. Then looking at the packing and stuff I needed to do and being genuinely sweet to my husband and him even hugging me spontaneously once and just general nice stuff happening I started really doubting myself. It was all roses and sunshine. I got some 2 player board games that people said were fun and suggested to him we try and play them. Got shut down.

My IC on Friday gave me a homework of paying attention to things that make me feel happy/bring joy. In session I was reflecting back on something that had happened that week where I had felt really light and slept like a baby that night. I observed that it was something new, that I thought I liked novelty. IC commented that was often the case for people with ADHD. That was a digression. Anyways.

I have some out of town guests visiting and I overheard my husband giving them the spiel about how shittily he's been treated at his current job and that DEFINITELY started caused mild anxiety/panic in me. And it wiped away all the doubt and daydreaming I'd been doing for the past 36 hours of the separation causing him to see the light and make a real effort to understand what everyone sees about him that he doesn't see.

I don't have a clue what to say to him in our next joint session. I know I'll have to tell him we're separating and we might want to make a separation agreement. I'm not ready yet to tell him we're divorcing and I guess I still feel like even if I've just crushed the happy fantasy again, that I still should give reconciliation a chance during our separation. I don't know what the point is in arguing with someone who is so confident that he's right in the face of him losing his job and his wife. I'm so tired of arguing with him and coming out with my emotions all battered and bruised.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


Last edited by thenightisover on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:40 pm
Posts: 417
thenightisover wrote:
I signed a lease application Saturday morning. Then looking at the packing and stuff I needed to do and being genuinely sweet to my husband and him even hugging me spontaneously once and just general nice stuff happening I started really doubting myself. It was all roses and sunshine. I got some 2 player board games that people said were fun and suggested to him we try and play them. Got shut down.

I don't have a clue what to say to him in our next joint session. I know I'll have to tell him we're separating and we might want to make a separation agreement. I'm not ready yet to tell him we're divorcing (I don't meet with an attorney until two days after that session) and I guess I still feel like even if I've just crushed the happy fantasy again, that I still should give reconciliation a chance during our separation. I don't know what the point is in arguing with someone who is so confident that he's right in the face of him losing his job and his wife. I'm so tired of arguing with him and coming out with my emotions all battered and bruised.


I also got to that point to arguing with him was an exercise in futility. I had the training from my FOO to argue for hours if necessary, not healthy. As I continued with my IC over the years, I as able to gain awareness on where that came from and that I get to choose how I want to move forward.

The crush of the happy fantasy is what I call the "start of the loss of hope". When you begin to realize that all the hoping will not change what is going on and who he is. The loss of the dream and what could have been. Once I truly connected that the "loss of hope" of a what was a dream and would NEVER come to fruition, I knew it was time. 3 states, 17 years, how much longer was I going to carry this dream, especially in light of the acceleration in the behaviors and anxiety 5 years ago.

My suggestion when the time comes that you tell him you are separating, stay in the now and on you. This is what I need right now, this is what I am doing NOW. I suspect he will go into denial and argue about it not being fair. "This is where I am at now" "It might be messy and not the perfect thing, but this is what we have now."

I indicated to my STBXH I did it this way (leaving and then telling him) because he would not listen to me so this is where we are NOW.

Hugs to you during this time. Its messy. I have bad days, but still confident in my decision.

Dragonfly21


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:37 pm 
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I'll see my individual therapist on Friday. But might as well post what went down today.

I gave the therapist my copy of Too Perfect with all the stuff I felt applied to my husband highlighted. And that articled (linked here) about the difference between OCD and OCPD. Because last session the therapist demonstrated that they didn't know the difference.

I told my husband I wanted a separation and that he was a perfectionist. The (charming, useless, old man) therapist went on his spiel about ADHD.

I came uncorked. I was angry, sometimes sullen, my voice was raised, I said how two Tuesdays ago my husband told me he wasn't putting any effort into this. And also the anecdote about how he learned to simply accept me and my unclean kitchen habits. Husband had no memory of telling me he wasn't making any effort. He kept insisting that couldn't have been what he said. Then he switched to as a Highly Sensitive Person, he doesn't take compliments or criticism well. So probably what he said was just him not taking the compliment well when I thanked him for the effort he put in. He thinks he responded to that by saying thank you (before telling me he wasn't putting any effort in, which he thinks he didn't say). We discussed a couple other of my memories of things my husband said and my husband has no recollection of those things either but they couldn't possibly be right.

My individual therapist had told me my homework this week was to pay attention to what gives me a feeling of lightness. Unloading on my husband did. :/

The therapist was like, if all it take to save your marriage was 4 pills of ritalin a day, would you do it? Showed my husband the pills he takes and encouraged my husband to call up and get a diagnosis and that I should send in a letter with my husband's symptoms to get my husband an ADHD diagnosis. My husband and I don't think that my husband has ADHD. Something we agree on!

We were running out of time and I had to get in near the end that I had already rented an apartment. He started saying he was going to get a lawyer. I pointed out that 20% of separations end with people staying married and he was like, so 80% fail. He accused me of taking our boss's side and he was never going to work for this place. This looks to me like black and white thinking and catastrophizing.

While driving away I thought of a friend who wants to move out of her boyfriends and I would ask that friend if she wanted to live in my apartment. I'd go ahead and fully furnish it. The baby crib and all that stuff so that I can easily get out of I want/need to. And I offered that option to my husband to give us more time together. He seemed amenable.

But I'm getting cold feet now that I'm sitting down and typing this out. I don't want to be with a person who tells me I'm his adversary, that I'm "on the [boss's] side." This feels wrong.

This might be hindsight talking and coloring this old memory, but we had an argument in our first two weeks of dating because I wasn't yet interested in being exclusive. He thought I might be a loose woman. And I felt like I needed to convince him I wasn't and that sure, let's try being exclusive. In my own mind I felt the pressure of him having already been employed at the company for several years and industry experience before that and I was fresh out of college. I think the prospect of having a bad relationship with a co-worker scared me and once we came out about our relationship I felt more like I needed to keep working on things.

My husband thinks perfectionism == OCD. I never once mentioned the words OCPD during the session. If he makes an appointment and I can send in or go in and say his symptoms maybe he can still get diagnosed with OCPD and feel a complete 180 and realize what an *** he's been at work and to me. But the chances of that seem to be 1%.

I think he showed me his true colors when he started talking about how separation meant he needed to get a divorce lawyer and protecting his stuff and his kid.

I'm scared. Through our daughter I'm tied to him for the rest of my life. He can seem so even tempered and nice. A friend suggested that it was my husband who turned me against my mom. If he did, that was some super subtle ****. She's a toddler now, but I'm worried if he could subtly turn her against me with his black and white thinking and his nice guy thing.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Posts: 41
I am a shitty, impulsive, ADHDer. I think there were better ways to roll this out.

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♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:46 pm 
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And we had a long circular conversation in the parking lot. He refuses to think that he's a perfectionist and says that people need to understand his reasons for things and they'll see he's not. That everything he does has a reason.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
Also telling him several times he has no self awareness was a giant **** up on my part.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
In my defense I had 4, 5, and 3 hours of sleep the previous nights. And I'm not taking my ADHD medicine to try and help me sleep.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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 Post subject: Re: First time poster: My marriage is ending
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 41
I should probably just go ahead and move out. This compromise I proposed to him to have my friend live in my apartment while I pay the rent is me caretaking his reaction.

His reaction is his reaction. If he wants to respond to a request for separation by declaring that I've ended things and we have to get divorced then that's on him, not me. He is reacting crazy negatively to me moving out and acting like it is the end of the world.

I need to get my apartment all furnished and ready and then go into the next therapy session and discuss the boundaries of our separation agreement. If he declares it over that's on him, not me. If he wants to blow tens of thousands of dollars on a divorce that's on him (....and my pocket book). I hope he's sane enough not to want that.

_________________
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪
Take a bow,
the night is over
♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♫ ♪


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