. Just when I was getting confused and turned around by this discussion, I got some gifts from it.
First, props to this line. While I don't think OCPD can easily be encapsulated, the following feels like a fantastically accurate summation of this part of things for me, in a clear and objective way I hadn't grasped before:
I can easily accept that ocpd is basically about a bewildering, threatening world where an intelligent, logical child cues in on the cause - effect approach in order to avoid bad things happening rather than on the emotional 'safety' provided by other people.
Then this, also from belgianguy:
But it is true that there is also a lot of self-reproach over issues that no one else has noticed.
Coupled with what LizaJane described along the lines of guilt starting with internal thoughts and shame coming on from an outside event, helped me with some clarity with the ongoing responses of shame & guilt (which, to be clear, I feel tons of both.) What it really seems like to me is that huge chasm between what and how I'm perceiving things and what and how others around me are.
Here's how it looks to me:
I"m sitting in my world, and in there it's filled with guilt for what I haven't done - which essentially amounts to that I haven't made my life add up to that perfect view of what things are supposed to be. Big sweeping things I haven't done, when pressed for details it's hard to clearly describe. Like bg described, things that others really aren't thinking about or noticing the way I am.
Meanwhile someone brings something to my attention, some actual thing that I've done or not done that they have issue with. "hey you left X here" "hey I've been trying to engage you all day and you're just not here with me" etc. anything. Most often something I'm either largely oblivious to, or have some sense of but am basically avoiding being really aware of.
My response: Here's where the shame kicks in, what I think Paul would describe maybe as the guilt-avoidance - I can't have done this, there's got to be some mistake, I'd be a terrible person for doing this, how can I be this person, what's wrong with me. And shame ripples out in all sorts of negative ways - defensiveness, resistance, arguing, bad feelings, resentment, despair, etc. But nothing that really deals with the actual issue at hand.
And this seems to clarify things in a way I hadn't seen them before, especiallyl the guilt-avoidance + shame-pit kneejerk response to just about anything someone says to me
. (But also keeping in mind that it's all being manufactured out of disordered thinking and whatever else is misfiring in here to begin with.)